SymbolADARank9Price USD0.13Market Cap USD3,575,858,39724H volume USD565,062,000Circulating Supply25,927,070,538Total Supply31,112,483,745Max Supply45,000,000,000% last hour-0.52% last 24 hours-4.81% last seven days-3.14
Setting The Record Straight If You Hold Cardano You Might Want To See To See This!
User experience he worries about bugs FAQ one of the first things that he did is he ties at the helpdesk and he said send me all the bug reports he's hairy sure about that because there's there's a lot of tickets we get and he said I want to see him I want to drinks for the fire hose so.
He worries a lot about that David flew up to my ranch here in Colorado and spent a week with us and we been giving David Jeremy and I a huge amount of information about Cardinal so he's going to be worried a lot about basically getting the rest that's not where it.
Needs to go and working with Bruno to get the Haskell team into a ship ready delivery culture but preserve the rigor and preserve the really cool ideas they have and also make sure that we do proper reconciliation this frees me up to do things like build partnerships and.
It frees me up also to think about bigger more significant features to the system especially as we begin entering the golden era and later ears which will include governance features and so forth which are coming faster than you think and we have to begin doing work now if we if we want to ship them in.
A reasonable period of time so that's where we're at shelly is staking staking.
Is coming soon either it's going to be.
On the rest side of the Haskell caught sight more likely not the first test that will be rust will hit right now priming a large group of people.
To participate anybody can but we'd like to at least have some fairly good participants the specs are entering candidate phase there some cases will have multiple specifications like on the network stack we're actually probably have three candidate specifications one from the rust one that's being.
Built on the enterprise site which could be potentially reused in cardano's and then what the network team has been doing on the Haskell side just about 50 60 percent done give or take maybe a little bit more but they're converging to a.
Funnel design which has some really cool features about it but if it's implemented with dependent types and there's.
A little bit of complexity there so we have to kind of work our way through it and get our spec to where it needs to be okay so.
I'll shut up now that's that's your update now let's get to your questions Aloha Darcy is that the Darcy from from the hotel in Lahaina okay let's see here some of the questions you guys have yeah that's a good question from CH about windows input until the rest of all ends cross-platform compatibility is an open question.
For the first generation I suspect we will deploy the Windows Mac and Windows but it's more of.
A DevOps question and we have to wait for the software to reach a certain level of maturity before we get to the process of building things my preference would be to have a turnkey docker image that we deploy but it may be that the first generation is a Linux push and.
That's followed by a Windows and a Mac effort because you have to remember that it's a different user class when you're talking about a stake pool in particular the user client is fine and it's going to be a command-line interface the.
First client on the state on the on the test net but.
When you're talking about a stake pool there's a high probability that people are just going to be deploying to something like Amazon Web Services or Azure and they'll be dealing with a linux server and if that's the case then it matters a little.
Bit less about Windows interoperability there the preferred environment for servers generally is Linux but remember that's for state pools not for Shelly consumer clients were of course going to have Windows Mac Linux and mobile client interoperability there I see this one a lot - well I was.
Kay extend card ah no contract beyond 2020 I thought we don't extend contract clients has more to do more work but there's a scope of work with Cardinal and that scope of work will get done even if it takes additional time to do it but I think we have a good chance.
Of hitting all those milestones because you know the front part was heavy research and we're now exiting heavy research and going to a hard core implementation and we kind of learnt had to learn how to do that the.
Way it needed to be done and we're now converging as a company to being able to do really fast software development so I think 2020 at the end of 2020 is a reasonable deadline for everything that was what we were planning for that first generation we need a Treasury system not just for us but for everyone in.
The ecosystem who want to do things like I don't want a situation where the Cardinal foundation has to somehow find a way to sustain itself so that it can continue.
Giving grants to Clio or tan gem or other people I want a situation where if you have a cool.
Idea you just go to the Treasury you submit a ballot and you go and make the case of the community directly and then there's a democratic process upon which people approve or reject that and that there's dedicated money for these people if we get to that.
Then we're a very sustainable ecosystem because you don't have gatekeepers the minute that you have somebody who decides at the top that person is your king it's the golden rule he who has the gold makes the rules so we're not going to stop till that.
Treasury is done at the very least and if.
There's still more work to do then and we're not funded for that then we'll submit a Treasury ballot but I don't think it'll take that okay yeah actually the shot the h-index the highest h-index in our company i think is 75 and that's from phil Wadler he's written he has.
25 thousand citations all right I'll see what else we got here did you Charles is there any other way to make Dedalus wallet download a little faster than how it is now you know it's interesting I can download the.
Wallet very quickly from Amazon because that's where we host it but for certain groups of people the wallet binaries they download fairly slowly like in several megabytes per second and I'm not sure why that is I've.
Talked to my DevOps people and they're starting to look into that but then you might also be referring to how long it takes to download the blockchain when the new network stack comes in the blockchain will download much faster because instead of.
Being shipped from just a relay you'll have multiple relays and a peer-to-peer model and then it'll ship kind of like a torrent in that case but your mileage may vary it depends on your ISP or geography.
Your network configuration and a lot of things can influence the rate at which a blockchain downloads ideally we'd like to get to a world where you do not have to download the entire blockchain to be effective network participant and to enjoy a reasonable level of security and.
Not have to trust a third party now there is a arms race right now in the cryptocurrency.
Space of how do we get the next.
Generation like client and so you're seeing technology like el gran recently proposed the paper called vault it's a very well written paper and the long the short is that you don't have to possess the entire block chain or UT EXO to be able to use the system and you'd still be able to verify that what you're looking at is.
Secure as if you had the entire blockchain there's also another proposal out of MIT called you tree EXO u.
TR e e EXO and it's a somewhat similar idea where they're pushing some of the work to the client but you don't have to store or.
Use the entire you tick.
So to get your security we're also looking at taking our side chains paper the proof of stake side chains paper and saying look we can take the UT Excel we can take the merkel root of the you tick so so you put in every little.
Leaf one of the entries and then it builds its way up to a merkel root you have that little thing and then maybe every ten blocks or a hundred blocks we.
Put it in the header and then basically what you would do is you would retrieve the most current UTF so you retrieve the.
Nearest header block and then you just get the chain back to that and then you would verify that that you TX o matches the check point but then how do you know that that point is right well you know it's right if you use the TMS construction.
That we have in the proof of state paper so those TMS signatures will be embedded periodically throughout the chain pempek by epoch and you just recursively walk your way back to the Genesis block which is hard-coded with every client so in.
Reality the total amount of data you need to download you only be a few megabytes potentially and then you would still be able to verify that that you TX o you received is correct which means that you can instantly start working you won't necessarily.
Have your transaction history but what it means is that I can have a light mode with Daedalus and make that the default mode so when you install.
Daedalus you download a small snippet of things and boom.
Your client just starts working it's just like your ROI in that respect and then as a background process and gradually upgrades itself to the full wallet but it doesn't stop you from using your client it also means that we can start having.
Meaningful discussions about fast bootstrapping for recovery and these things without relying on.
A third party Explorer or other infrastructure so we're working on that and McCauley at El Grande is working on his thing and mi t--'s got their thing and the.
Guys over at unity have their thing in fact that we invited all of them to come down to the I which case summit and there's going to be some good people there and we'll talk to them about their best available process.
But they're writing papers were writing papers and there's going to be a grand convergence of these things what does it mean for you the consumer it means that you're not going to have to ever do what I had to do when I join the space which is download a loogey client wait a really really long time for the.
Chain to propagate to fully download and then then use it instead you're just going to download it use it like you do.
A cellphone app and then wake up one day and your client happens to be more useful than it was before but you didn't have to wait for that just organically kind of happened okay see what we got here.
What will happen to Cardinal coins that get lost by aloft keys and alike well you know Satoshi Nakamoto had an.
Opinion on that he said that that's like a little gift to everybody in the Bitcoin ecosystem whenever anybody loses their coins and that was 2009-2010.
Thinking of Bitcoin öcalan the stakes were quite low it is a bit disturbing when you say hey we have a global financial system and this global financial system is going to replace the dollar or be an alternative.
Financial operating system.
For the entire world but then there is no recovery model when something like for example the CEO of exchange dies and his private keys are lost with them or what happens when you have inheritance situations you know when grandma dies you know and she's the last living member well how do you actually give her crypto to the kids you.
Know what's that process if she never wrote her keys down or they got lost in a fire or something like that we live in the real world and when these things happen we have meatspace human processes to transition and move funds that have been lost or remediate from theft or so forth but in the.
Krypton world we don't quite have that so there's two schools of thought one school of thought says that you put a governance layer in your system and then if there's an issue you go to the governance layer with some evidence and you say a governance layer I have this evidence and as a consequence you can clearly see.
That what happened.
Was not what we intended I led Dow and there's another school of thought that says buyer beware and if it happens code is law and you're just gonna have to deal with the consequences of that and I Santa Sara spec both are right and actually I think in a certain.
Respect both of these things can actually live together in one ledger and how you do that is you say look we're going to have differentiation on the address level and on the.
Smart contract level for your storage and use of funds so basically what you do is you say I consent to having my funds controlled by a governance system or having sort of restoration process and the event that I get.
Hacked or an issue occurs.
So I'm going to move my funds to especially constructed to address or to a smart contract that has a bunch of logic that basically allows those funds to be redistributed allows the private keys.
To move from one set to another set whatever you.
Want so there's logic within there this is the magic of smart contracts that lets you do that and then we can have an argument as a community of well what are.
The best practices we should have but here's the thing whatever we implement is voluntary so you get to decide whether you consent to that kind of a system and if.
You don't like it there can be a competing system for example in finance there's Islamic finance and there's.
More than a billion people that that need Sharia compliant investment.
Products and they can't participate in certain forms of investment or financial practices out of religious respect so and there's also funds that can't invest in certain things because of ethical reasons for example.
Norway has one of the world's largest sovereign funds it's well over a trillion dollars of money and Norway puts very strict ethical guidelines.
Of what they can invest their sovereign fund it and if you.
Happen to be doing those things even if you're a great investment the country of Norway won't give you money so similarly you can vote with your values and move your funds.
To an address to a smart contract that carries those particular values so that's the magic of where we're going with these things we will build some of them and then we can leave it to third parties to build the rest now some people say that.
You you shouldn't even allow this to befall the tree you should have such a pervasive governance system that.
The ledger can do things like reverse transactions reissue money create for example the Tasos governance system conceivably could allow you to create new money blacklist old money and iOS has actually already.
Reversed transactions I do.
Not think that that's ethical or.
Wise we haven't resolved in any shape or form the governance problems of the United States or Europe or the rest of the world so why are we to believe that somehow we're so much smarter that when hundreds of millions of people in aggregate can't.
Quite get a government to work properly that some hackers in their basement are going to just dream up the perfect governance system that will then permanently in can be a plutocracy or an oligarchy and this is a committee not as subject to any particular jurisdictions laws it's like a meta government so you have no recourse or.
No appeal so I think there's a really really really bad idea and honestly I feel that it's much better to.
Make these things walnut-tree and then for us to argue about what's the best way of implementing them and then once you've consented to something both parties agree that that's fine what does this mean it means that every now and then grandma makes a mistake.
Every now and then in exchange makes a mistake and in which case you've reduced the total supply of the system which is a gift everybody so at the very least your mistake in a way help other people get a little bit more value and that helped everybody get a little wiser and.
I frankly feel that any consequences and a cost for an action for it to be meaningful if you always know that you have an insurance policy that no matter what you do you can get bailed out you start behaving as if there are no consequences the way you do things for example with a Wall Street when Greenspan gave them.
A foot and they said hey I'll always make the.
Stock go up or later.
Central bank leadership that allowed the mortgage crisis to exacerbate to a point of crisis and the banks didn't really care.
Because they said well no we'll make the windfall profits today and if the system collapses we'll get.
Bailed out and nice retirement packages you have to create consequences for a feedback loop to organically improve if Apple releases a crummy phone.
Or Samsung releases the phone that explodes they get sued and they have bad press they lose lots of sales billions of dollars so as a consequence they have to put in good processes to avoid these types of things from happening if they said if I release a crappy phone the Korean government's just going to give us a.
Subsidy to make up for prophets or the US government's just.
Going to bail us out well then do they particularly.
Care if the phone is good or bad not so much and that's why certain systems like the education system the health care system in the United States are so horribly broken because they've disintermediated the consumer and their purchasing behavior from the quality of the.
Product and the outcome of the product the third parties generally.
Pay either of our student loans or insurance so they can just increase the cost reduce the quality make worse outcomes and we're at loggerheads.
Ticket prices from Raoul he asked about discounted tickets for the summit yes there will be a discount if you buy with ADA ADA pays almost done we're working with a tix on that they're basically.
Building in the interface we're using Eventbrite for our ticketing system so we're building an extension to Eventbrite that allows us to basically accept a DEP payment it just takes a little bit of time to do that because these systems were not designed to talk to each other so.
We've been building for the last month and that's almost.
Done and once it's done that we'll be able to accept ADA payments for the for the tickets and use the singular system for ticketing there's an advantage to not.
Having parallel systems because it's a huge logistic overhead if you have parallel systems because you know you'll have one big piece of automation that Eventbrite provides and that's super turnkey and.
Easy but then you have these other tickets so what that would effectively mean is anybody who bought a ticket with ADA which show up and say hey I bought a ticket and then we said oh you're one.
Of those aina people you have to go to that box over there and we'd have to have like a different line or something and I would much.
Rather everybody's in one process in one system so that meant we had to build a bridge and so the bridge is nearly done and once it's done we'll accept it should be the 18th but maybe a day or two but I don't.
Think it'll slip too much but it were pretty much on target for that and the the system will let you buy ticket pretty easily.
And inna tickets will be discounted I think it's 15 percent or 20 percent I'll have to talk to Carrie but it's a nice discount it's a sign of appreciation to our ADA.
Holders now I've gotten a little bit of pushback on the ticket if he could've the consensus event that.
Coin disk is putting on the earlybird prices or $1200 and I've been to well over 30 conferences last year actually 58 events last year not all of them were conferences but I've seen ticket prices from $100 to $4,000 a ticket and I feel that the prices that we're charging are fairly reasonable.
Now it's important to point out that we are not planning on making a profit from this conference the reason why we're selling tickets is that we are flying out every single aisle HK.
Employee and the many cases family members and we renting a big venue and we're providing a lot of value and the cost of doing this is the minimum of a million dollars for us so the hope of the.
Tickets is to recoup the cost of bringing all of our people together we all spark or get.
Them very good speakers to come in additions a lot of great academics have already RSVP'd and they'll be there for panels including some of our competitors.
And they'll be able to go there and make the case why their.
Protocols are better than our protocols and we also have some surprise guests that are pretty fun and we recently signed up a very very nice musical guest actually to musical guests one is the world famous musician well actually both of them are famous.
Bands that have been around for a while if you buy a VIP ticket you actually get to go to the VIP conference a concert so I think there's just gonna be a lot of value there.
There's hackathons workshops some of them are going to talk about zero knowledge proof some are going to talk about Plutus some of them are going to talk about a lot of the engineering.
Principles we use how to use NYX there's going to be a crypto puzzle where we're gonna take a native wallet take the keywords and break.
Them apart into four different puzzles one will be on the t-shirt and three more throughout the conference hall and the first person to break all four of those puzzles will get the ADA and there you go no purchase necessary and there's just a.
Dozens of other little.
Things like that and there'll be some good sponsors and so forth and it's also an.
Opportunity to not just be me but be literally everybody in my company so if you ever want to meet Phil Wadler or a closer Duncan or Bruno or you know let's see some of the other that make the magic happen they're going to be there and many.
Cases giving presentations and you can directly interact with them and we can do some cool stuff together so it's also the America people will be there and the Cardinal foundation will be there we partnered with tan gem and we're hoping that everybody who attends the.
Conference will also get a free tan gem wallet so that's a.
Lot of value and we'll just keep adding and adding and adding as the week's go on and more people get interested in attending so I feel.
That the ticket prices.
Are quite fair and again the hope is just simply for the tickets to recoup the investment of bringing all of our people together this also gives us a chance to work towards something.
As a company and we'd like to show a lot of.
Really cool accomplishments by the summit or else would be pretty boring summit so in many ways the existence of a summit.
Like this and the fact that we have that accountability of a deadline kind of forces you to work under pressure and do your best work and get things out quicker so.
It accelerates launch of Shelly it accelerates our competitiveness it shows off all the things we've done it'll help us dispel this myth.
That we're just a white paper and we're just a bunch of academics who have no idea how to ship anything and it'll also allow us to make the case why cardano's.
The best cryptocurrency in the world and why we feel we have a good shot of getting to.
Number one and getting getting Ecosystem to be very dominant and we're also going to fly out the Ethiopian class all the gals who have been training the ones who pass will pending their visas.
Getting cleared will be able to come and do a presentation so you can actually see firsthand the output of our education efforts in Africa and our entire Enterprise team is going to be there so if you're curious about how we're doing the blockchain side of things the summit will have those people there so that's a lot of.
Value for a $500 ticket and I feel that people are complaining about these prices either they.
Don't go to.
Cryptocurrency conferences and most of them are useless I or they they're just being a little stingy and you know it's not to make money here it's just to.
Break even and also gives me a chance bringing all my people together I miss him and that's one of the tragedies of running a decentralized company while it has a lot of benefits the downside of running a decentralized company is that you don't get to see people that you've become.
Friendless every day you know if I had just everybody who worked in the same office come in I'd have my coffee and I'd be able to go door to.
Door and say hey what are you working on and you know and we'd be able to have a great conversation go out to lunch go get some drinks together but sometimes I'm a little isolated and I can just talk to them over slack so and I can't travel everywhere I tried last year.
I went to 30 countries so bring them all together for a big event that's just great and it's really heartwarming and it means I finally get to see everybody.
Again last time I did that was in Portugal in January of 2018 so it's it's simply been too long.
Okay let's see what we got here how is Cardona attacking interoperability cross-chain atomic swaps yeah that's good question.
So interoperability needs to be basically two things first you need to be able to move value between chains and second you.
Need to move information between chains so it would be nice that you can query Bitcoin and ask it tell me your state I need to know something.
About you you know what's what's.
Going on what does this block look like and.
You can get that information and know with reasonable degree.
Of certainty that that feed of information you're getting is correct because there's events that happen everywhere and like I see financial systems and in the traditional crypto world is that if you're running a smart.
Contract might be event-driven and it has to process all those events aggregate them and understand what does that mean for you and that could be a trading contract it could be like if this person dies you know give me.
The inheritance whatever it might be there's a lot little factors there so when we say interoperability generally we're either talking.
About I can move a token from one system to another system or I can.
Move information or understand information from one system to another system either the outside world another cryptocurrency or the legacy business world so everybody has an opinion.
On how to do this and opinions are like Wi-Fi you.
Know Wi-Fi Bluetooth and other protocols aren't necessarily the best protocols they're just the ones that ended up winning and now everybody's using them and there's probably at least one person in those spaces that said mine was better and here.
Are at least objective tangible factual reasons why it's better but just like in the VHS versus Betamax or the HD DVD versus blu-ray or PlayStation vs Xbox there's winners and losers in business and in standards and at the end of the day somebody's going to win and so the name of interoperability is be pragmatic so whatever the standard.
Is support that and we're going to do that i but it is.
Probably a good idea to have a reasonable conversation about proposing standards so first off.
There are two principal consensus algorithms.
Used in the cryptocurrency world there are others but to a proof of stake and proof of work so we have protocols.
To be interoperable with both classes of systems the proof of stake side chains and the nikah power system so we're going to be advocates of those protocols and we already are and we're going around and saying.
Hey here's an improvement.
Proposal you all should adopt.
This you get great light clients and you get the ability to talk to each other we'd love to see that happen now there are other things for example there are Dex's for like kyburi and they use atomic cross they facilitate atomic to proxy and swap so you.
Can lose value there's also protocols like inter ledger and there's even discussions about using the Lightning Network as kind of a universal layer to a.
Compatibility system between different Ledger's there's no reason why we can do that so we've.
Assigned a product manager to look at lightning and basically look at all the different proposals that.
Exist and we're in a really fortuitous situation where we have a natural set of nodes to run these types of things namely the state pools so in addition to maintaining state.
Ledger you can also maintain these meta systems like Oracle services or lightning nodes and we may be able to achieve interoperability through that layer they also.
They can act as bridges for inter ledger which is a protocol from ripple and we'll look at these things and you know we'll probably roll them as soon as Shelley and Gogan around because we'll have enough capabilities in the legend I'll be fairly straightforward.
To do that now closely related interoperability is a discussion about metadata and this is really really really important metadata is the is kind of like the secret sauce of your transactions so for example you have two events and they're.
The same value so there's same type of transaction Bob withdraws 500 dollars from his ATM now doesn't matter you know it's Bob and an ATM.
Is the same structural thing it's going from one unit to another unit pulling it up one case here's the metadata Bob does it right next.
To a restaurant and it happens to be Christmas and his family happens to be in town Bob's taking the family out for dinner for Christmas that's what you would infer from that event more likely than not.
The next case Bob is playing five hundred dollars out of an ATM at a known brothel right next to it probably imagine loves doing something else no this is the same type of transaction Bob taking his $500 that he owns and just.
Just going with it but the implications of that transaction are very different so what does that mean it means metadata in many cases is more important than the transaction itself so how do we reconcile this well one school of thought says metadata doesn't belong on.
The blockchain and also it's very personal it's very particular and do we do do we.
Really want to live in a world where you know all this stuff is preserved forever on the other hand if you don't in some way represent the metadata of the transaction on the blockchain well then.
That means your metadata is no longer a mutable audible and time-stamped in which case you can you can move one set of metadata to another.
Set of metadata.
So you can make the family dinner look like the brothel if you wanted to and whereas Bob may not have the ability to get recourse so you can effectively deep fake the the the world into believing that you've done something that maybe you didn't do.
For another example is the commercial intent mine a transaction what I sent.
You money it was usually because there was some sort of commercial understanding it's a donation its purchase for products it's a trade for services I give you this to mow my lawn and again.
The metadata is basically the story why did I send you that money so if block chains are to be interoperable they do have to for either compliance reasons legal recourse refunds a litany.
Of other commercial understandings have to have a metadata component because when you're moving value between Ledger's the metadata.
Is going to flow with and oftentimes just as important so what are we going to do is card on oh well the very least what we're going to do is allow people to take the hash of the in commercial intent of the transaction and do contingent settlement transactions so what the heck is that contingent settlement is where Alice.
Sends something to Bob but Bob doesn't get it until Bob agrees to the terms of service so for example let's say a donation alice is sending x amount of ada.
To bob to donate to his organization with some terms and conditions I'll only give you this million dollars if you name your your science building after me for a university for example okay so.
She'll take that Agreement hash it sign it embed it into the transaction send the agreement to send the transaction to pop it's it's impending it's contingent and then through a different band probably pops up Bob will receive the agreement read it.
Agrees to it hashes it signs it and beds it into the transaction and only one both.
Of those components are there does the transaction settle so what does this mean it means that now that bob has the funds so let's see he doesn't name the building then when alice can do is go to the court and say court bob agreed to do this and she has a contract she has his digital signature.
And and now many many many jurisdictions wyoming now alice has legal rights and that's as good as it is and that's metadata has been time-stamped it's auditable it's immutable it lives there now you can systematically can struct from this basic primitive arbitrarily complex financial arrangements and in many cases perhaps even automate these.
Financial arrangements and have outsourced Abul servers that live off chain that coordinating things so you could have.
A private part of the deal that only certain actors know and then you have a public part which is preserved in that metadata is represented properly.
So these capabilities will work their way into Cardno and they don't take a lot of effort to do and in their easy to overlay and they work very nicely with smart contracts and instantly it allows you to now have a very elegant system to sign contracts and a very elegant system to tell the story of why you're.
Sending money what you're doing what is this all about and if we did install governance systems.
Like for example you embed these types of transactions into those smart contracts I matched I mentioned earlier then that governance system would have something that worked with the arbitrator's there.
Would look at the metadata and say yes clearly you did receive this money to do X and there's no.
Evidence that you did that so we're gonna give Alice your refund okay all right let's.
Look at the rest of questions we got here tunnelled obama.
That's a odd name now I get this question a lot and practice how many Fortune 500 companies are using blood chain or cryptocurrencies some are using blockchain we talked to them but the majority are not using crypto including JPMorgan Chase they've decided to create.
Their own coin I see that's what we were saying a long time ago alright see what else we got here did you do is Rina still a thing or did we do a new approaches watching.
The old whiteboard video you know whenever you set up an aggressive.
Research agenda you do a lot of high-risk high-return research and what you do is you start for gold you say look it'd be super cool to to get all of these things and Rina was one of those high-risk high-return mega-projects that basically we said let's go shoot for it.
Let's go try it and see how far we can get so the Haskell team has kind of a spiritual successor like a micro version of Rina that has a lot of the concepts and principles of.
Rena embedded within it and they're working their way towards that and there was certainly a.
Lot of progress has been made and the other problem with Rena is it's not a hundred percent fit for perfect purpose for a peer-to-peer system it.
Requires some slight modifications with how diffs.
Work so we've done a heck of a lot of research and we thought about it I asked Neal and Peter and others in our company to give me an estimate of how much would it cost to do all arena the way that they wanted to do it and their estimate was about ten million dollars and six.
Hundred man months of Engineering and that was a preliminary estimate which was of course going to be subject to your standard.
Cost overruns and delays so what we did is we scaled Rina.
Back a little bit and then we said let's take the best concepts and ideas we think for a shorter time horizon a one to three year horizon and let's go chase those and if we accomplish that puts us in a really good position for later generations of the protocol to move in that direct rina in its grandest and most.
Purest form would require special hardware and that might make sense if we're talking about satellites it may make sense if we're talking about mesh nets so as Ada grows and we start trying to escape the regular internet and imagine a new more fair internet especially in places that are first getting in and getting.
It for the first time it'll make a lot of sense.
To go in that particular direction and because we have no loyalty to legacy protocols it allows us to have a clean slate networking is among one of the most opinionated.
And complex issues because a lot of the times the things that you want to do you can't do so what you have to do is basically play a game of well how do I do the least harmful thing to my user base it's almost like neurology.
Or brain surgery generally.
Speaking you don't make your pensions healthier when you treat them.
You're just slowing down the degeneration when someone has Parkinson's or Alzheimer's or someone has a brain tumor it's not exactly like you're gonna say okay here's this drug I've cured your condition and it's more like I can give you an.
Additional two or three years of meaningful life similarly when you're dealing with networking you can have these ideal beautiful protocols that have lots of security and great properties but they have.
To be deployable and live on the regular internet which is constrained and subject to older hardware very older protocols and a lot of suboptimal design decisions that are provably bad and exploited on.
Often basis so ton of complexity in the implementation of network protocols comes from hardening your protocols to defend yourself against the imperfections and mistakes of the original internet and it's just a sad reality of where we're.
At and that's why it's so hard to innovate in this particular space and so frustrating innovate in this space and a lot of times when people care so deeply about performance and reliability they build their own networks that are out-of-band and they don't go on the general internet so where you.
Still have Reena on our heart and we've learned a heck of a lot by pursuing it but the grand Rena with the.
Capital R is probably not going to work its way into Cardinal in a 2020 horizon but some variant of its concepts will and it'll be sufficiently good I think to be a major.
Innovation over how cryptocurrencies work if you look at the space protocol labs it's done could work with lit p2p and there's been certainly a lot of discussion like the unity guys are a lot of our network guys so they're thinking a lot about how to improve network stacks but unfortunately this is an understudy area and it's something.
That we badly.
Need innovation in because we're starting when we bring these second generation or third generation of scaling protocol then we're going to reach massive theoretical bottlenecks where our bottlenecks are no longer the consensus algorithm being following but rather being able to move the information between people and if you have a homogeneous gossip protocol that's naively implemented you're.
Basically gonna end up self ddossing or something.
When you have a too much flow and you need things like that friction being temperature tax and protection from eclipse attacks and so forth so working our way towards it when bankrupt never when delisting never we're doing good guys gotta love these trolls though Nostradamus can you help the LMS in the French Revolution with smart contracts for them.
To vote population is asking for citizens referendum I think we can have millions of people adoption you know it's it's really tragic that we have people who want to express themselves in the world and we still live in a world where there are small group of actors.
Who seem to control that global narrative about the intent and meaning behind what you do.
We'd like to believe we live in the time of the Enlightenment and if you have an argument or you want to say this is what you intent and what you meant that you'd be listening to people give you a fair shake unfortunately what happens is that.
A protest occurs and the protesters are there for.
A reason but then somebody decides to take that and put.
Their own spin on it and say.
Well this is what the protest was really about in the United States we had Occupy Wall Street we also have the Tea Party before Occupy Wall Street and there were in some cases in bed within that movement very very legitimate grievances about the way society is structured and in many ways it feels that it's just fundamentally.
Unfair and the yellow vests are no different in that respect but what's unfortunately happened is the media has still has a huge amount of.
Power to make these things seem like what they're not or in some cases just completely buried these things we had a populist uprising in 2009 in Iran that was so vicious it actually nearly overthrew the government we had pro-democracy movements in Hong Kong which were brutally shut down and people used mesh next to communicate with each other the same.
For Mubarak and Egypt and at least that one was successful so it's not my job as a designer of protocols to take sides I would be compromised and I would ultimately diminish my effectiveness in building these protocols I must be like a judge I must be dispassionate and neutral it's my job however to.
Build the best capabilities possible and make those capabilities as accessible as possible to everyone so that people can take those capabilities for whatever their particular movement happens to be.
Whether it's legitimate or not that's for the rest of society to decide but it allows them to take it and at least be able to express themselves without fear of coercion manipulation reprisal or corruption of the message and if people attempt to corrupt the message or to get retribution for it that these tools also can.
Allow society to see that front and center so that's an idealistic dream it's an idealistic goal but it's I think something that is obtainable within my lifetime so what does it mean means that we need to use the best processes and we need to use the.
The best available engineering but at.
The end of the day these things are only going to.
Work if the general public.
Knows how to use them and decides to use them and thinks that they're important to use them and that's a moral choice and I can't make that for them all I can.
Do is build things I'd like to see within my lifetime a fundamental.
Change in the incentives of journalism I think they're fundamentally broken at the moment the journalism is not about reporting reality and it's not about ensuring that people get a fair and accurate representation of what happened journalism is about creating.
Hype and excitement and ultimately entertainment because at the end of the day on a broadcast system usually you have.
No power you can't really do.
Anything about it so if you turn it into an interactive drama at least people.
Feel like they're part of the play the part of the show even though they're just watching history moved by they're not making.
It so we see interactions headlines stories fact-checking all these things which are just not constructed anyway for productive dialogue which actually why you see systems.
Like the intellectual dark web be so prominent powerful because at least there instead of having these clickbait headlines and small blog posts that.
Who cares if they're right or wrong who.
Cares what we say there's no consequences you have long debates which do not terminate with just one video for example jordan peterson and sam harris have been going at it and the secular humanist movement have been going at it was jordan Peterson about well is God useful.
And does God exists and should we believe in God it's an interesting question and we see numerous debates and and both sides are going at it but they're going at it in a constructive way where they're actually not attacking each other personally they're not going after is Jordan a good person or Sam a good person they're actually going.
After the crux of the argument and we're actually making social and progress as a consequence of these things but not just for nature of God but also things like policy should we have universal basic use resources you know these types of.
Conversations and if that's not okay well then then what is.
The alternative and will the alternative create a situation where all that collective wealth that's been created by those.
People and their companies could.
Actually be compromised or.
Destroyed like what we saw in Venezuela so these are tough questions and they're very nuanced they're multivariate the yellow vest situation is just another reflection of that and oftentimes those types of protests are symptoms of a broader problem where there's groups of society that are afraid the.
Way things are going that they're going to ultimately be left out and put into a position where they're basically indentured servants to a system the wake up every day work hard no matter what.
They do what education they get the content of their character or the quality of their merit they're stuck in the mud so imagine conceptually if you were born and somebody just put a five million dollar debt at a five percent interest rate on your head no matter what.
You do unless you get exceedingly lucky like win the lottery or you know you you start a business and somehow that business end being crazy successful more after none you're just basically permanently in debt now if you could take that and say that there's a social.
Component to that and if you're put into a particular class.
Or you live in a particular economy or environment it's effectively the same deal and we see this in many different countries like the United States we have areas which have systemic poverty the Appalachian mountain range if you live in West Virginia and you come from like a coal mining area where Pennsylvania's same way in certain areas it.
Is really hard to get ahead in life not many jobs high unemployment rate in the places where you can get a job pay less or no longer hiring so you don't have.
A lot of options so either you leave in which case you're leaving your family and your friends and the things that you know and love or you stay and you accept a very.
Very bad job or you accept having to just scrape by and as a consequence of spending.
Everything you make you actually get systematically poorer his wages are not increasing with inflation so as a consequence what does it mean it means that you don't have the ability to create a savings and you're basically a slave to the system and you're getting your buying powers going down every year cuz the u.s. monetary policy.
It's a bad deal now take that and replicate that to millions of people and you got a movement and those people are gonna have a voice and say we want something better and it's not good to just look at.
Them and say well yeah they if they just only got a college degree that would somehow solve the problem or if they just only learned to program.
That would solve the problem it's patronizing and in many cases it does nothing or it would require sacrifices which mean that they're able to get ahead at the expense of other.
People so I see these movements whether it be occupier yellow vests as symptoms of broader social problems and I see the frustration that people have in that the systems of communication we have and the narrative that the media propagates is not fit for purpose for us to actually have a discussion about how.
Are we going to solve things you know my industry this entire industry only exists as a consequence of.
The system the legacy system being bankrupt we're not the criminals the whole we exist this because they are you know if there's no greater example a recent example.
Of this than what JP Morgan has done and 2017 the CEO says bitcoin is for criminals it's a scam it's a bad deal and now they're launching their own token and that's totally okay and apparently that's fine and uh but yeah where there's.
No value in anything we do but when they do it it's fine and let's just shut up and.
And be patient and enjoy it it's insulting it's patronizing and it's endemic of larger problems so instead of saying hey let's just let's just accept it and.
That way that's the way life is for the first time in human history we have social tools cryptocurrencies and the derivative protocols of them to actually be able to do something about it you don't like your money make your own money you don't like the way consent loading.
Works build a different system and I think over time this will have a huge impact and eventually topple society as it was and replace it with something a bit better do you think there's something better than proof of work or proof.
Of stake to replace the current protocol well there are certainly people that run around they.
Claim that they have the thing to solve all your problems like the latest - that I've seen or Avalanche and hash graph where they say they're just so much better conceptually that you shouldn't even think about proof of work or proof of.
Stake you know these things are just dead and dying and they ought not to exist first off you have to think about the philosophy of what your consensus protocol is saying the.
Value of proof of work is that it is assembling lots of computational power it's bringing a lot of computing power together now the mistake of Bitcoin is that that computing power because of the nature of the protocol is effectively useless and always will be useless its ASIC optimizable meaning that you can go do one.
Thing and build special hardware to do that thing faster than everybody else and it's just a game of doing that one thing over over again and it provides no value no benefit to society other than the fact that you can do that one.
Thing that's a really bad way of doing things but it was a necessary way of doing things to bootstrap the ecosystem what's much more meaningful as saying like the GPU or CPU based algorithm where because of some design of it the only way you can do that.
Thing is to use a general-purpose computer then you're doing two things now instead of just saying we're solving problems you're also saying oh by the way I've just built a great computer with hundreds of.
Thousands of machines that have a lot of capacity to work.
On general problems like folding proteins like storing data and verifying that you possess that data you know things like searching the Stars for alien life whatever that might be so the next generation of proof of work will be less about you know.
How do we achieve you know more optimal asic and it's going to be a lot more about saying let's better use the fact that we've aggregated all this raw computational capacity which will Auto upgrade because its consumer hardware without having to pay for.
That upgrade and let's now steer this computational capacity in a productive direction we've seen some flirting with these ideas with things like prime coin that was the very first example in later.
Papers like pro mcclain and paper out of Berkeley called useful proof of work and my hope is the proof of work system will move in that particular direction in addition to getting rid of the mining pool monopolies and also you know embracing the quality dag stuff and so.
Forth in terms of concepts like throughput and latency the protocols have evolved to a point where throughput can be considerably increased so you can get things that are tens of thousands of TPS if you really want to and the trade-off profile is increasingly getting more reasonable and then confirmation latency will get.
Better as well over time and we wrote a paper on the relationship between the two and some theoretical maximums of what you can and can't do proved mistake is a fundamentally different system it found a way.
To replicate the lottery a proof of work but doesn't require a computational capacity and actually I'll tell you one of my proudest moments and my career in the entire cryptocurrencies became very recently and something I'll mention at the i/o which case summit and.
Boy it's it's really magical I was talking to Marcus and Marcus had told me that he's trying to get a steak pool to work on a rock pipe or a rock pie is itself is our Ock API I and it sells for like $70 it's.
A very low cost device and it only uses a few watts of power like four watts of power and if once once we have this tested out if you'll try to compile it and run it and more work really closely with them because I'd love.
To do this there as long as short one of these little boards which is basically the size of a cell phone kind of.
Actually looks like this calendar this is about how big it would be with everything in it one of these little boards but four watts of power can run a stake pool.
And if that's the case you'd.
Only need a thousand of them there on a thousand stake pool so you're running an entire system a global scale financial system five kilowatts of electricity that heater right there uses about 1.5 so I just need a few of those and I can run a global scale system that's a hundred times more decentralized.
In Bitcoin 30 times throughput confirmation times 15 times faster think about that five kilowatts that's about 20 solar panels if you're doing those 250 watt solar panels you could power global scale financial system and it'll get more power efficient over.
Time it's unbelievable that you could build a system like that and have it work and that's a consequence of good protocols and that's a consequence of good science and it's humbling to think that that's how far we've gone in just such a short period.
Of time and very quickly.
Will converge there so anyway proof of stake is less about power consumption it's as low as it's going to get five kilowatts is nothing it's now about talking about who should be in control so what proof of work does is it.
Ponton it's it's a meritocracy it's exogenous system it lives outside of your system and whoever the hell can figure out Asics and subsidized power and that that very weird Sharky predatory game there your masters and just accept that they're smarter than you and they're in control.
And once they get in control that's usually an aristocracy and they're there in that game unless you're very rich hundreds of millions of dollars billions of dollars and great connections you're just not going.
To be in that Club so don't even think about it and their total control of all thing whereas where as proof of stake you know that's basically saying well now no matter who you are if you own a few units of the system you're gonna have some influence over not a lot but.
Some and that's proportional to your amount of ownership in the system but we can augment that eventually as the systems evolve with other factors like we can.
Layer in not just your ownership of a token but also are you providing resources are you a valued member of this ecosystem like if we're in a liquid democracy system you're a delegate for lots of votes maybe you get a better chance of.
Winning to get a block and that's measurable in the system you're providing a lot of bandwidth to people or storage maybe you get a little bit more chance to win so we're just at the infancy of a very long conversation which will take years.
To decades to work our way through about you biasing the proof of state model to include more than just the raw.
Ownership of the asset and what this effectively.
Means is we're not just talking about consensus we're talking about your value in the system whether you're a good actor or a bad actor according to some collection of metrics that we've determined are good that's Darwinian some people will get it right.
Some people won't but it's a really exciting time and ultimately I think that proof mistake will overcome proof of work as a dominant consensus system proof of work will still be valuable but it's going to change the way it works it's more about saying I want to.
Build a decentralized grid computer Allah folding at home and I am using a system to bring these teams two types of nodes together proof of stake is hitting the crux of the who decides and who pays and.
Whose valuable and who's not and how do we empower people and hold people accountable for the decisions they've made now the very same mechanisms that you could use for that you could also apply to platforms for example if.
You're the sargon issue with patreon or the T platforming of conservative people on Twitter or YouTube wherever you fall in that political spectrum this is an issue where you have these systems where we build them we make them we make Twitter we make Facebook many people come together and create the product and there is no product without us but.
Then you have an unelected dictatorship that basically decides the rules of the game and can change them arbitrarily including destroyer entirely livelihood arbitrarily based upon their political whims and wills with no oversight or checks or balances that model will die that model must die we kill kings we kill dictators humans have moved beyond that and.
We look at kings and dictators as terrible things we should never regress back into that for the sake of expediency or necessity for how we get our news how we interact with people or who has legitimate opinions or not so they have to go but what do you.
Replace it with.
Well we're talking about a system where we're trying to decide who's good to interact with and.
Who's bad to interact with what's correct good behavior what's not so good behavior so the same concepts that.
Allow you to determine that for who should be in charge of running the chain can also.
Be potentially reused to say what is good information versus what is bad information and you can collectively reach a decision about good members or bad members without having a leader at the top it's.
Just an organic process that occurs that is where we're going with this type of technology this is what we're thinking about with this type of technology and something that makes me profoundly excited because I think that this is a problem that can be solved in the next 10 years and what this effectively means is.
It will kill the Facebook's and the Twitter's and the reddit's and these other platforms and replace them with infrastructure that is a public good that is self-sustaining that allows people to express themselves in the ways that they want without fear of reprisal now another thing that.
That really is interesting is closely related to this concept of control and value is this idea of.
Penalties you know if I pollute there are a lot of countries in the world that think it's a.
Good idea to just say it's a lot you're allowed to do.
That as long as you by carving just pay the right priests off you know so there's all throughout human history this notion that sometimes we behave badly and if we pay a fine we we are allowed to recover from that bad event now we run into this terrible problem that social infractions for example of the the more memo.
Or other things we're you know some people believe that people have said or behaved badly they've done something that's socially irresponsible instead of just saying say you're sorry and we'll move on there's a group of people think that there's no way to come back from that and the only way to solve the problem is by destroying that person's.
Life the platforming them robbing them of their economic livelihood firing them from their job making them a social pariah and there is no forgiveness none maybe 20 years in the future you can crawl back and beg for table scraps but no its total.
Destruction total burn the person down isn't it an interesting thing that we could one day potentially have a system where you could behave badly you could maybe be a little.
Sexist maybe say offensive things and if you're caught doing that you there's a tokenization of these things and you could pay a pittance a social.
Token and that gets you back into good graces and it allows you to become a proper member of society again and if you consistently behave badly you go socially bankrupt and then you.
Get kind of isolated off but if you you know I only occasionally do it you can recover a little bit and then everybody just kind of looks the other way well they paid the price this is not only a hypothetical it's actually being thought about by governments and institutions for example.
Social Credit in China and this carries very profound implications both negative and positive for the gamification of human behavior and for also our ability to say that certain members of society are productive good members of society we all tend to sometimes.
Break the rules sometimes we speed sometimes people don't pay for a train because it's only one stop and it's late at night you know these things happen and it doesn't necessarily mean that people are bad actors interesting question now cryptocurrencies are also on the forefront of that.
Because at the end of the day they're incentive engines they allow you to create value.
And distribute that value amongst people and decide who ought to get it who will not get it it's interesting concepts so proof of.
Stake is at the heart of all of that because it creates a foundation of research a corpus of research which ultimately can be repurposed for all of these things whether we're talking about a social.
Credit system or penance system for indulgences or we're talking about carbon reduction or we're talking about it sent us to clean.
Up the oceans or we're just talking about who should.
We listen to in an information stream without a nominating a dictator and having that dictator have control over our lives it's pretty interesting okay what else to be got and if you haven't figured out by now I tend to give people very long answers that go on different directions some people truly hate this and some people.
Really like this and.
I like to believe that the people that really hate this have already left the ecosystem and they are they are now happy purchasers of yo Cintron people hate it when I.
Do that to some people mmm-hmm we gone with this my guys I'm looking for an interesting question something with lots of meat that people find interesting well hello from Turkey what area turkey is a beautiful place and Nipah pals versus nimble limbal will they accomplish different things but even if they did the same.
Thing the pals are awesome and I think they're better because we invented it hi Charles can you speak more about the coffee smart contract case in Ethiopia oh sure that's gonna be a fun one and you know what's the what's the end goal where do we want to.
Go okay so let's say you go to Starbucks and you have your cup of coffee and it.
Has this is 20 years in the future like far in the future you always have to start with the end in mind and kind of work your way backwards Stephen Covey's did then the seven Habits of Highly Effective People says.
Start with the end in mind if you die.
What will people say at your funeral okay so you have her a cup of coffee and I have my cell.
Phone right here and I scan the QR code now what what just happened I get some information on my app and it basically tells me what's the story of that cup of coffee we don't think about stories with fungible guts and products when you see one barb gold versus another particle you know I care what the story is.
It's gold you have your cup of coffee it's coffee but what's happened is as a society we've moved to an evolved state and.
Say look we live in an algorithm rich data rich environment and as a consequence we can now actually talk about where the beans in that coffee came from and then give that information to the.
Consumer and what does this mean it means that you as the consumer now have for the first time ever the ability to understand if those beans meet your values these all your speed illiberal flu flu you know I only only bearded hipsters from Boulder care about that ok well what if you find out that those coffee beans were.
Harvested by slaves people who were actually held at gunpoint and forced to harvest them would that be okay a lot of people say no what if you find out that those coffee trees come from a where to plant those trees and maintain those trees it caused dozens of indigenous.
Species to go extinct giraffes and other things they just died out because they harvested that farmland would you be okay with that some people yes No okay so the point isn't to say well this is good or bad by an entity like a government the point is rather sync by.
Tracking these things you as a consumer get.
To make some decisions now we're already starting.
To do that and we're doing a very.
Crude ham-fisted way and it's a little dishonesty like for example organic or vegan.
Friendly or these types of things they'll put labels on and in the you know maybe there's regulation maybe.
There's not or non GMO that's another thing.
The point is that systems are being built today for the purposes of fair trade Carbon Reduction sustainable farming practices whatever they may be that will inevitably allow us 20 years in the future to be able to scan that cup of coffee and understand the story behind that product and the hope is.
Then that you the consumer getting that information can now be a more discriminating consumer.
You're already a discriminating consumer when you look at two products and one says Made in China and the other says Made in Japan or made in Germany or made in USA just by stereotypes and brand bias you'll think.
That the Chinese product probably is inferior to the German product or the Japanese product or the American product because you say well Chinese goods tend to be mass manufactured and made it a very low cost so you know all things considered maybe the German product is better that might not actually be true but you believe that because of biases.
And stereotypes you have when you go to a big data world instead of going into the aggregate and just believing something because that's your mental model you actually can go into the particular.
For the first time ever okay so that's the abstract that was good in particular let's actually talk about what we're doing in Ethiopia so what.
We're doing in Theo Pia is we have a three-part model for how we do government contracting part one is where we enter a jurisdiction and partner with the ministry usually Science and Technology or education you know something that has a techy feel to it because they control the.
University or connect to theater bursaries pilots and hire locals to run those pilots to look at verticals like AG tech for example we're very obsessed with that need dop a coffee and we'd like train a bunch of people and teach them what is a blockchain how to.
Be a good programmer.
Or how to use our tech that we're building and also just how to think around how to build these types of applications okay and they always say yes they say you want to train people and hire them and give them nice high-paying jobs.
Yes no no please don't do that no they always say yes so they say okay let's do that then we build a class in negotiation with them and we send out our best and brightest that we have the best we have can offer large moon yes he's a brilliant guy we send out Polina as well.
She's great and they they go there and they say we're gonna teach these people Haskell or something and that's a great way of filtering the class should they pass it then we know their rigorous they're good candidates and we hire them if they can.
Pass we hire them so in the moment we have 23 people all women in Ethiopia 19 from Ethiopia four from Uganda and the class is.
About halfway through and we've see some great very encouraging progress and I hope they all pass but the standards the standard we don't discriminate by.
Gender or race or culture we say this is the standard and they have to measure up and if they measure up we hire them okay then stage two we.
Go and do pilot so you crowd out on you Theo Pia and you say all right let's look at.
A particular region where it'd be really cool to build.
Out a supply chain and what does that mean it means that we find an area where we can model.
From start to finish from the farmers trees to the donkey that.
They put those beans in the back to the washing stations to all the logistic networks that get it to the central exchanges to sell it we can model that whole thing out then once we model this whole thing out then we say how do we identify each person in that chain that after identify each.
Person what is the metadata about and what types of transactions and we might even write a DSL they actually model and describe all of these types of things.
Then how do we get information into the system and then how do we incentivize information to enter the system and that can be.
Through group loans like if you do this you get money for stumping that can be that you can hire prices on your beans and.
We can subsidize that through many models it's it's a complicated affair but anyway basically the pilot kind of figures these things out then once that model is built and you'll notice that we have locals who are interfacing with the people so they understand the culture they speak the language but then we also have.
Our engineers working with them as well so both sides are doing some great things that pilot then constitutes feasibility analysis to scale this across the entire.
Vertical so if it works there.
We'll try to take it to all million-and-a-half coffee farmers now how do we deploy it to them if we have a sustainable model we set up a company a subsidiary and it's a partially owned subsidiary we give the government some of the equity the employees on the ground some of the equity might even make it a.
Co-op where we.
Give the farmers some of the equity so it's.
Owned by the people in addition to us and.
We can offset to the cost of deploying to all million-and-a-half through venture capital through impact.
Funding through international grants so we go to the government say we're all a whole system and you don't pay anything upfront and then every time something enters the supply chain as pledged and is used if pay a small toll for that which is affordable but an aggregate you're talking about millions and millions and eventually billions of.
Transactions and that sums up to hundreds of billions of dollars in revenue with something that will eventually run the entire market so it becomes a hyper profitable franchise Abul white-label whole piece of infrastructure that I can take and put across an.
Entire vertical in different countries now what else have we done well I just didn't build a supply chain I took a.
Million half people and I gave them cryptocurrency wallets I gave them the ability to transact and manage private keys and that ledger because I built it it's gonna be interoperable with card ATO which means I just brought a million and a half users into car dog so I don't give a about.
Partnerships and these other things because at the end of the day we're not going to win in the Western world to begin it's a rigged system guys JPMorgan Chase and Goldman Sachs and these other guys they've already won they've already rigged it and if it becomes big deal you don't think Amazon and Facebook.
And Google and Microsoft aren't going to come and play with billions of users what the hell is it going to do for me when Microsoft coins built.
Into Windows and they have two billion users or Facebook coins built into Facebook wallet and into the messenger and they got a billion and a half users and it's a cloud application so they have a great user.
Experience with that works on mobile not gonna win that fight but guess what I can win the Africa fight and by aggregate that gives me half a billion users two billion users and it carries our values it's decentralized it's free and fair and it's helping some of the poorest people in the world create wealth and rise up.
And what does that mean it means that then that gives me collective negotiating power to actually get reasonable regulation because I say if you want to be interoperable with my system and make trillions of dollars working with these people or not become wealthy.
You have to be fair so you have to think about self sovereign identity and you have to protect.
People's privacy and you have to give them control over their assets they have collective bargaining power so instead of just accepting the dictatorships of these these tyrannical companies we can now actually create bet much better more efficient systems and kill the middlemen of necessity we can burn their companies to the ground and replace them with.
Things that are owned by.
All of us open protocols open systems no middlemen now there's still room for entrepreneurship.
But then that means the only way you make money is if you do something you create something you don't make money by rushing your way to a monopoly.
And then making a deal with the government to preserve your monopoly and stops are starting to go towards I'm not comfortable with it I think it's a dark road to.
Go down so I'm gonna go to Africa I'm gonna go to Asia and I'm going to win there and there's billions of people there and there's trillions and.
Trillions and trillions of dollars of wealth there and by the way if you're talking about cryptocurrency adoption who buys cryptocurrencies who uses cryptocurrencies young people and where are the youngest people in the world 70% of Ethiopia is under the age of 30 and the vast majority of those people are Internet able and have heard and in.
Some cases used crypto currencies and are used to the idea of mobile.
Money and grew up in a monetary system where the government money sucks and they've had to do things about that already so when you go and make the.
Case that crypto currencies are a better system would you rather be selling it to 55 year old.
Pensioners that listen to Fox News or do you rather be selling it to the people that are actively looking for an alternative and by.
The way their economy is growing at 10 percent for a year think about that you know so that's the key and then once you get these people then you're in a position to negotiate and you can negotiate with leverage the dumbest thing you can do in.
The world is go and say give me X when you have no leverage for X it's like asking for a raise to your boss if you.
Are fungible expendable you produce nothing of true value and you're just kind of there you're like the door greeter at some store and.
You whether you're there or not the business runs you can't go to your boss and say give me a 50% raise or I walk they say Bobby it's been.
Nice having you here but maybe it's time for you to retire but if you happen to be in a key role of your company you happen to be if you walk out the door they lose millions and billions of.
Dollars you've got a lot of leverage so would you rather go to the US government or the European.
Union and say guys you don't do business with us you lose five trillion dollars or you're gonna be pushed into a financial collapse so let's talk about how we're going to do business in a fair way for the world or would you rather.
Go and say out of the Grace and goodwill of your heart can you please please please.
Help me can you can you please please please do things the honest moral right way what position would you rather be in you asking for the same thing and that's the key you see so what we're gonna do is we're gonna go to the with a pan-african strategy and.
Go to Asia and we're gonna build up a way of getting millions eventually tens of billions eventually hundreds of millions into our system through enterprise public-private partnerships that make systems better there's.
International desire to build these systems for Carbon Reduction fair trade practices and sustainable farming a lot of money available through direct foreign investment impact funding and the government's themselves.
And the infrastructure is about ready to do it we're going to go do that you'll put it in and then once we're there we're in a real great position to collectively bargain and make.
Sure that regulation doesn't go insane I do not want to live in a world where you have to have.
An escrow of all your private keys and give that to the government I do not want to live in a world that to use Bitcoin you have to be a licensed money service business and get a million dollars worth of licenses I do.
Not want to live in a world where at any given time usage of a system to express your opinion it may result in you losing Social Credit and then eventually being exiled from society just don't want to and the things that will push the world in this direction our tyrannical centralized hierarchical companies that are.
Preserving their power and if we do nothing the default state will be to move in this particular direction the only way we can prevent that is to depower these structures and the only way we can do that is through leverage and.
This is how you create it okay so that's what we're going to do that's that's our strategy if you don't like it there's two thousand-plus cryptocurrencies in the world and there's lots of other companies doing interesting things and you know go buy XRP.
Lizard they're playing in the Western world and they're the Ned Flanders of cryptocurrencies if the regulator says spy on your customers they'll find a way to do it but for me I have principles and values and just where I'm on my sleeve and some.
People hate me for them and some people love me for him and that's that's just the way it is Craig right I've got more money than your African country I ever tell you guys the.
Story of that you know I was in Rwanda and I knew that somebody from his company was going to speak on a panel that I was on but he wasn't on the agenda so I didn't know he was there I find out I'm on a panel.
With Craig Wright like an hour before I go on the panel and I never met him I just knew of him very very distasteful hey guys so it why not.
Why not go and talk to him okay so we're in the back room getting ready for the panel and Craig comes on in guys phone is looking at it like this and the.
Guy is trying to brief us all about how the panels gonna.
Be and every about minute he just lifts his head.
And yells at that guy says no you're wrong and I'm right I have more money than you and I'm right and the other guys we're all just looking at each other like who the hell is this guy Jesus Christ you know did he not take his Wheaties Wheaties this morning.
I mean what's going on so.
So I told the moderator I really don't want to speak on this panel and they say no you have to the President of Rwanda is here you know it's a big government event it would be irresponsible dabao I said all right well I'll go do my speech and I'll sit on the panel but when he speaks they'll walk.
Out so I did my speech and when he spoke I walked out of the room and then we were on the panel and and it was just amazing the answer is that.
I saw is this some questions and the mentality that this guy had I control everything I'm smarter than all of you I patent everything the good.
News about the cryptocurrency space is that over time over the years not necessarily the days or weeks we seem to be pretty good at eventually exposing.
And writing out these types of people and increasingly isolating them and I hope that that's what happens in his particular case.
If that is how we're gonna go and what our party is all about I don't want any part in it I don't think it's really going to accomplish anything I'd rather just go work for DARPA you know at least you at least.
You get to see something you want there okay let's see what else we got here sorry for the tangent but I just really.
Do not like that guy and I'm sure he doesn't like me I ran him Antonio Coahoma and.
He gave me a pretty big scowl and he says I'm a scam artist but you know Dan says that too and I'm going to f Denver tomorrow so we'll see what they.
Say there's thousands of a theory of people and I'll kind of walk in and and we'll see if these keyboard warriors will say to my face what they tell me over.
Twitter hey Charlie if you work for a company he would have been fired.
Long ago there are deadlines to me you can't take forever with any project let's talk about deadlines we get criticized all the time for that this is gonna be fun y'all ready for another Charles rant everybody everybody fired up for that here's.
The thing you know let's talk about the microsoft hololens and let's talk about at all and research if you came to me.
And you said hey I got a great idea for a product it weighs a lot it gets really heavy you know after you wear it for a few hours it gets hot three thousand dollars it's got a short battery life and this augmented reality headset.
It's got a field of view like this and and boy am I not doing a great job you know if you try to ship that as a production consumer product and expose that to the general public so it would be the biggest flop of all.
Time and and you just be laughed out.
Of industry so why is the hololens not labeled as this extraordinary failure in microsoft is is yet again incompetent and this company you know just to want to be and they're not real well because we all understand that it's a real revolution in terms of investment banking and finance in.
General we'll unfortunately see the consequences of a lack of control of anarchy there will be scams there will be plenty of people who run around and defraud people because they know they can I think this is going to be one of the great fun challenges to explore if.
We can accomplish that.
By 2030 I think that the cryptocurrencies have will have become the greatest innovation of the last five hundred to a thousand years hi I'm Charles Hodgkinson chief executive officer of input-output Hong Kong we're a cryptocurrency company and a research firm that specializes in the science of cryptocurrencies so I first became interested in crypto currencies in 2011 I.
Read a wonderful white paper written by Satoshi Nakamoto and I.
Had known about peer-to-peer technology for quite some time for.
Example I knew about the BitTorrent protocol and Napster and these types of things and I noticed the evolution of the technology so it was really interesting as a as a paper really interesting as an idea but I really didn't think.
That it was a sustainable market I said oh well we have these imaginary tokens who's going to buy them will.
They ever achieve liquidity and even if.
They do that the government was shut it all down so I didn't take it too seriously until about two years later right around 2013 or and.
I noticed that despite the fact that the system had taken many hits and scandals and other issues that it exhibited a tremendous amount of resiliency and then from there I said boy it would be really interesting for me to do something in this space but I didn't know anybody so I remember an old adage.
One of my my professors set which is those who cannot do teach so I created a free class on udemy called Bitcoin.
Or how I learned to stop worrying and love crypto because I'm big Peter Sellers fan you know so I kind.
Of named it as a spoof on dr. Strangelove and I just created a bunch of free lectures I released him as a Creative Commons license that I expected maybe a few hundred people take the class well it turned out I got over 70 thousand students.
For the course and I got over five thousand emails in the first year that I hosted it and I answered every single one of them because it was a fun experience so I got to meet everybody and got.
To learn a huge amount the venture I'm usually most known.
For is aetherium which I started shortly after sitting.
Up Invictus innovations with fatality uterine and several other people so to understand aetherium you have to.
Understand Bitcoin and what problem Bitcoin solve so Bitcoin is all about saying can I create a money system where Alice and Bob can transact with each other in at Restless way and with a decentralized database recording all those transactions so in other words when Alice sends that transaction it gets recorded in some magic ledger.
In the sky like.
A giant spreadsheet in the sky that once it's in there it can never go out it's tamper resistant and it's immutable and it's time stamped and auditable so that's a wonderful concept and that alone with the notion of.
Digital scarcity allowed a currency to form but the minute that you have a currency people immediately start saying well what else can I do with it is it just the ability to move value between Alice or Bob what about the story behind that value the metadata the context a contractual relationship for example what.
If Alice says I'll mow your lawn if if you pay me a hundred dollars well that's a contract so what if Alice mows the lawn and Bob doesn't pay her that can't be reflected in a system like Bitcoin so what we wanted to do is add a programming language to a blockchain so.
This was kind of the naive notion that we had in 2013 for 4 theorem is can we add a programming language to a blockchain so that we can on that then allow people.
To facilitate more complex commerce known as.
Smart contracts the best projects frustration so most of the people who started aetherium they didn't start and say hey we're just gonna go build some magic new blockchain and it's gonna have all these capabilities and they did this in a clean room in a very.
Academic way they all started working on other projects for example Jeff was working on master coin Fattah Locke was working on color coins I'd been working on bitshares and each and every one of us had the same scenario where there was something we wanted to do but the nature of blockchain.
Technology or the nature of watch hands had already been.
Deployed but very difficult and time-consuming and expensive to do these very simple things so we had to say there must be a better way so what what occurred was that vitalik started aggregating really good ideas ideas that he learned from Circular learner ideas.
That he learned while working on color coins a master coin and kind of stitched them all together into an initial white paper then like all open source projects that attracts attention if it's a good idea and so we started appearing out of the ether and discovering hey this is an interesting thing I'd like to.
Help and collaborate and then somewhere.
Along the way we decided that it was a good idea for everybody to meet each other so really the turning point between.
This is a discussion about a cool thing we could do to something that we actually wanted to devote time money and effort to was in January of 2014 we most of the etherium founders met up in a beach house in Miami for the North American Bitcoin conference it was a wonderful trip and we had.
An opportunity really seriously discussed not only the technology and what it would require but also the philosophy what are we actually trying to do now from that we had reach an internal consensus that this is something we'd like to pursue but you can't just build a product in isolation you have to actually go show it.
Off and see if anybody cares so we thought we were all crazy you.
Know we'd show the world this yeah we don't care about this stuff and no there'd be no interesting we just all go home and go.
Do something else maybe start a bakery in Hawaii or something so what we did is we we went to the conference we did some presentations Vitalik.
Presented at the conference and i did a debate with dan Larimer and david johnston david represented master coined and represented bitshares and i represented aetherium and we we got almost like a makjang resk.
Rock star reception to our presentation fatale for example right after he presented was mobbed by people and it took nearly an hour to pull him out of that circle of people who had questions so we realized that we had something very very special the problem is then now we we have.
Momentum we have something special we have a group of people that are willing to do it you very naturally go to.
The next question which is how do you do it where do we do it you know how do we execute and that was the the hard part the the devil in the details behind aetherium that's a long story but I'll try to make.
It concise so after Miami we took a vote and we tried to.
Decide whether we were crypto Mozilla or we were going to be crypto Google and these kind of met two different things so crypto Mozilla is saying let's do a not-for-profit organisation Mozilla is the maintainer of Firefox and.
Projects like that crypto Google is a great patron of open-source software but ultimately it's a for-profit business so through very different models.
And they have different notions of how these things ought to operate so we took a vote and initially the vote was eight to zero for all the founders.
Said crypto Google is the way to go so I went to Switzerland and we started examining how one would set up a for-profit venture that would build a protocol and launch the protocol through a not-for-profit foundation so I lived in zhuge for several months we got tax rulings and did very complicated work all.
In German which was quite fun I ate a lot of pretzels and gained a lot of weight but you know that's how these things always operate and then somewhere along the way around June of 2014 we eventually had to make some hard decisions and the decision was made to reverse that moved to crypto Mozilla and some people left.
The project myself included as a consequence of that and the raining people set up a foundation did a crowd sale and moved on so I never thought at that point I'd ever get back into the etherium space I said well you know my time is over I enjoyed the six months I was there I learned.
A lot I met a lot of interesting people I enjoyed the beautiful vistas of Switzerland so it's time to go do something else with my life so I suppose the easiest.
Way of thinking about an ICO is it's just basically a mechanism a decentralized mechanism for somebody to raise capital it's a very neutral thing it's not a pro thing or a negative thing it's just a gateway that allows capital of flow and.
So the very first ICO that was done was master coin and the beautiful thing about this mechanism is just how incredibly simple it is so with master coin the founders of that project just listed a a forum post in Bitcoin talk and they said hey we're doing.
Something interesting if you like it send some Bitcoin to this specially formed address that was that and that's basically what occurred and they raised half a million dollars in a month and everybody was just blown.
Away they said wow I can just create a forum post put an address up some text and then suddenly half a million dollars appears so that's the basic notion of it is this idea of saying hey I'm gonna do something here's how you pay me and.
Then using a cryptocurrency as the value transfer mechanism but more broadly and ICO is is has become formalized because there's now a lot.
Of more tools and functionality and interesting things that one can do the first I cos were all kind of meta to the system.
You had a Bitcoin as the value carrier but all the terms the conditions the liquidity all these things were kind of outside of the system itself so somebody had to go and.
Build master coin and then find a way to issue a token and master coin it was very.
Bespoke time-consuming process that took months now with aetherium what aetherium is a lot of people to do is to find.
That once it's called the ERC 20 standard and then they can take that ERC 20 contract issue as many tokens as they want and then go ahead and issue a sale people swap ether for ERC 20 or what-have-you so what this is.
A lot of people to do is it's.
Kind of democratized access to this new fundraising mechanism it's a lot of thousands of people to raise billions of dollars all throughout the world without actually having to physically meet.
The people that they're raising money from and in some cases not even knowing who they're raising money from because it's being done over the internet through these.
Types of payment systems so it's an incredibly interesting mechanism it's like crowdfunding on steroids it's not an entirely new concept we've had things like IndieGoGo and Kickstarter for years the diff is that now IndieGoGo and Kickstarter have been disintermediated and also that.
The payment system itself no longer goes through the standard financial system so banks and financial intermediaries are not involved it's now a direct peer-to-peer payment system between people so this obviously causes.
A lot of regulatory questions about how this model is going to survive thrive and stay.
Within compliance given that the legacy system never imagined that such a system like this could exist first the magic of icos is that they have now made everybody equal in terms of their ability to raise money there's never been a time in human history where we've had this.
Power so you know ordinary days if you wanted to be an entrepreneur get venture capital you have to go where the money lives.
So that's New York that's Silicon Valley that's London Beijing Tokyo there are certain cities where that kind of value aggregates and the people who dispense it aggregate so you go and come up with your great idea and go on the road and go live somewhere well for a certain group of people that's a perfectly fine proposition the young and.
The affluent or those who are in a position to take a risk but let's say that you have a brilliant idea maybe you want to run a decentralized grid perhaps you're in Haiti or in Puerto Rico or somewhere and you've just had everything destroyed by a hurricane and you say instead of rebuilding an.
Old stupid grid let's build a really good grid and maybe with solar or something like that have the people on it well that may be a wonderful idea you might have a great business model there might be a lot of passion behind that but the issue is you have no access to capital so your only option is to.
Either fly capital to you which seldom occurs it's luck usually or you have to leave and then find a way to somehow bring.
That back home and build relationships so people in the developing world or people outside of.
These zones have historically always been at a disadvantage what the ICO does is say your geography no longer matters.
Many icos have been done from very small countries like Barbados the Cayman Islands Switzerland and so forth and have been able to raise money on par with what you would expect from Silicon Valley and from New York and these other large capital tops that's a very powerful very prominent very amazing thing but with great power does come.
Potentially great problems some of these offerings could be construed to be securities offerings especially.
Where these offerings require centralization for the end product to work or they have no product that they're selling and they're using it to finance the construction of the project.
So as a consequence it's very unclear about how legacy laws will fit into this new fundraising model and also unclear about what jurisdictions ought to take precedent normally when one raises money they raise money in a particular place let's say California then you would say.
As an entrepreneur I have to keep the state of California happy and I have to keep the US government happy those are the two constituencies it's manageable lawyers know how to do this when you do.
An ICO you could end up raising money from ten thousand people in two hundred different jurisdictions in some cases jurisdictions on a Bargo list like North Korea and Iran so in that case how do you actually manage that or do we even know who your customers are if you're not doing know your customer and anti-money laundering.
Compliance so these are some of the great challenges of icos is that while the increased liquidity they put everybody on equal footing and it's a real revolution in terms of investment banking and finance in general it also introduces the issue that there is a gap of good governance good regulation and good compliance.
That would allow people to produce a good outcome for these things so anytime there are contracts markets transfer of value and an expectation of return or a potential for fraud and abuse there is a universal consensus that there needs to be some notion of governance behind that and recourse in the event.
That people fail to meet their obligations so the role of the government at least in a Western sense is to be the arbitrator of last resort it creates levels it says okay well for markets that are very efficient work well and are generally not filled with fraud the government does tend to stay out of.
Those markets but for markets where there's just too much temptation there's conflicts of interest agency.
Failures these types of things in those marketplaces the government feels necessary that it has to have some form of a role so this is kind of a contrast between let's say journalism or things involving written content in the financial markets in the first case it's completely unregulated most part can say whatever the heck you want to say in.
The United States and everybody just finds a way to deal with it whereas in the financial markets they tend to be the most regulated of all markets not because we started that way but because we've had consistent collapses from collapses in the 1880s with gold deflation to the.
Knickerbocker crisis in the turn of the 19th the 20th century - again another crisis and the Great Depression - the crisis of the 1970s the S&L crisis long-term capital collapsing the you know the dot-com bust the Enron scandal.
You know you can just keep going down the line and at every single one of.
These instances usually what occurs is the government says that there was some area that we probably should have been regulating or understand a little bit more about and we now are going to step back for example it and Ronnie resulted in the creation of sarbanes-oxley whereas in the 1930s they decided to create glass steagle to separate.
Retail and Investment Banking and both of these were probably pretty good ideas within the context.
Of society so there are two.
Modes of thought on should the government have a role or not one of.
Them says yes the government ought to have a role and that role ought to be very hierarchal meaning the government is the final say of this matter that we should adapt existing regulation to now cover crypto currencies in a way that makes sense whereas there's another group.
Of people who say that due to the nature of this technology and how incredibly transformative it is we're now money can move at the same speed as information at the same speed as.
An email it's intrinsically global and it's impossible to really know how much people are really making because of this new paradigm that it's going to be very very difficult if not impossible to actually regulate.
It in a conventional sense as an example if you take a look at how conventional MSB regulation works money service businesses it's not the regulatory agency that.
Acts as the watchdog they actually delegate their eyes and ears to the financial institutions themselves we have a notion of something called suspicious activity report which says if your customer is you the bank or you the exchange are doing business with.
Are doing something that seems a bit suspicious you have a legal obligation to report to the regulatory body on.
Your customer so what does that mean that the regulatory bodies have turned all of the money service businesses into their eyes and ears into their watchdogs and by extension.
Have a pretty good handle on the conduct of everybody using those pipelines but when you move to a cryptocurrency setting there is no longer that third party to file a suspicious activity report and as a consequence the only way that the regulatory body is.
Going to get data on these.
People is either a finding it themselves or be having people report it self report which which generally didn't work out so well.
So when we look at the totality of this problem and the fact that a lot of the tools that regulators traditionally use to maintain control over the markets and.
A lot of the tools that regulators need to use to maintain order are not present or superseded by cryptocurrencies advancement as well as the very rapid advancement of cryptocurrency technology it does seem to.
Be a Pyrrhic almost Sisyphean effort to to actually regulate the crypto currency markets the way it's done as a legacy system that said if there is no regulation there are no controls it's the Wild West you will unfortunately see the consequences of a lack of control of anarchy there will.
Be scams there will be plenty of people who run around and defraud people because they know they can and they can hide in some jurisdiction.
So there's kind of a good about and an ugly to all of these things my personal opinion is that we need to take a measured hybrid approach there are cases where we probably can institute effective legacy regulation and there are.
Cases where we can use things like self regulatory organizations voluntary standards things like smart contracts to compensate.
For the fact that these.
Markets are different and also start enforcing best practices and the other point is that if the consumer the market knows that they have to look out for themselves.
They start making accommodations for that but one final point of caution which is if governments do choose to take too draconian of a measure on crypto currencies this will not stop the market there's never been really.
A case in human history where there's been a demand for something and the government decides to ban it where all of a sudden people stop using it from prohibition to the war on drugs all of these.
Things we've spent trillions of dollars put many people in jail and yet these black markets continue to grow so if there's utility and demand there will always be away and the.
Problem with crypto currencies is that they're just so darn hard to stop it's as anonymity.
Technology improves as these peer-to-peer protocols become more resilient as they start working their.
Way into mobile devices it's going to become harder and harder to know how much people even make every year unless they self disclose these things so if we look to analogy for example the.
Hollywoods war on file-sharing and the lack of success that they've had there if regulators do choose to have a very aggressive stance and my.
Belief it's not going to actually protect any consumers it's just going to reduce the overall availability of information and ultimately cause more harm than good I think the biggest risk of icos is not.
Necessarily the specter.
Of government intervention or this idea of is it a scam or.
Not it's more that because of this disintermediation that's occurred by the nature of the technology the people who conduct icos tend not to have a strong of a relationship with the people whom have given them money you know there's an unspoken and sacred bond when you run a.
Business when somebody capitalizes that business gives you money you have a relationship of trust with that person that person had to work really really really hard to.
Get what they have and what they've done is they've taken it voluntarily given it to.
You and you're gonna go and take that money and hopefully you know build it up make it strong and come back with more of it more value for them if it's a donation that's fine and it but it's the same notion you've taken their money and they want you.
To go do something maybe build wells in Africa what have you so the issue is.
When you now no longer know whom you are getting money from there is a tendency to dehumanize these people to say I have no relationship with them I have no obligations to do anything for them I don't have to care about them and if you reads a lot of the terms of.
Sale for the icos that have recently been coming out there using semantics such as this is a donation there is no expectation of return there's no expectation of delivering a product if we take the money and go to the French Riviera and just decide to live an opulent lifestyle for the next five years you can't sue us these types.
Of things now under.
Ordinary circumstances no investor in the world would ever agree to that and ever finance a business that has that kind of prospectus but because of the nature of these markets and the fact that there's going to be liquidity and the initial investor may be able to resell that token to somebody else and recoup their investment regardless.
Of the project ends up being successful it has created a moral hazard and this is something that the community.
Regulators and investors in general need to have a broader discussion about how we're going to overcome this.
For example there needs to be segregation of capital if capital is raised it needs to be stored somewhere where the people who have raised it don't have immediate access to that capital there are some sort of controls over that.
Second there needs to be a better relationship between the buyer of the token and the person delivering the project now it's not completely unfair to to say that this lack of a relationship is solely because of the negligence of the person issuing the ICO and some cases because of draconian or very out-of-date securities laws just by giving basic investor.
Protections and basic investor participation you're tacitly admitting that this thing ought to be regulated.
As a security that's a very unfortunate artifact of old.
Laws that ought to.
Be updated where they're intended to protect somebody but in consequence to avoid them people are actually diminishing consumer protections so basic things like this need to be thought about and done and it goes back to best practices and community standards.
Where do these standards come from they come from failure so if you want to know how to run a secure good cryptocurrency exchange you look.
At the people who'd ran insecure bad cryptocurrency exchanges and say what did they do wrong just like if you want to build a rocket you look at the Rockets that explode it and you say what did we do.
Wrong and from those failures you learn tremendously quickly on how to change things and we've seen a tremendous evolution already there's a lot more formalism occurring with the ICO markets there are now I see a rating agencies for example if they're very preliminary they are starting to create some things and eventually there will.
Be stronger regulation and hopefully that regulation will be quite intelligent sensible and guide the market in the right direction if it's not intelligent not sensible then unfortunately as I said before it's likely to result in the market becoming actually worse for consumers not better I love the old.
Gas business I've had a lot of friends and family.
Who have been in these industries and if you look at how natural gas or.
Oil or gold or any commodity is treated in the Western world these are you know very competitive reasonable markets and you know people have an expectation that there should be a fair value for what they're extracting and that's somewhat predictable but if you go to the developing world where they don't have the expertise the credibility the infrastructure.
And other such things to actually develop their resources for example Guinea.
With its bauxite has nearly 1/3 of the world's supply of bauxite what they end up having to do is go to China or to Rio.
Tinto or these other firms and make very predatory deals or they get pennies on the dollar for these natural.
Resources and they accept bribes or they accept some infrastructure play but at the end the day they're literally selling something that could be worth $100 for a.
Dollar or less so what if you could actually tokenize the development of natural resources so you say something like okay we're gonna survey this field for oil or we're going to survey this field for a bauxite ore for diamonds and then we're gonna tokenize the entire production.
And each token represents some ownership stake.
Of that now this kind of way of going about things is not completely new.
It's been proposed before but now because of all these tools and cool things that.
We're getting in the cryptocurrency.
Space it gives us many more levers that we can pull to prevent corruption and to prevent theft or.
Other such things from occurring or cut off the flow of capital in the event that a agency failure occurs even on the.
Government side perhaps so this will allow smaller jurisdictions that really do want to compete on the global markets to actually get a fair price for their resources which in turn they can use to reinvest in the.
Community as a corollary to that if you look.
At infrastructure for example energy water all of these types of things we're moving from a centralized model to a more decentralized model you know it wasn't too long ago that Tesla announced the.
Solar roof and then before that the powerwall but basically what they're doing is proposing.
A decentralized grid.
So wouldn't it be a wonderful world.
To say instead of having to build a 50 million or 100 million dollar power plant to go provide energy people in Ghana or people in Nigeria for example why don't we instead build a.
Solar grid or wind grid and have that be community owned and these tokens actually represent ownership of that grid and they can be icy owed so everybody in the world can now make money from a good an energy farm that's providing cheap clean power to people in this jurisdiction or if we talk.
About for example foreign aid instead of saying we're gonna just give all this foreign aid to some hegemony in the country and hope they do a good job foreign.
Aid can now actually be participating on the open markets the UN for example could buy some of these tokens in order.
To promote the development of water and promote the development of solar and actually get a return on these tokens these are like new.
Opportunities that are incredibly exciting to me and they can do everything from creating a decentralized internet via a mesh net to things like utility services to the tokenization of natural resources and I think this is going to be one of the great fun challenges to explore over the next 10.
Or 20 years as technology matures my great hope for cryptocurrency technology is that we stop talking about blockchain and Bitcoin and all of these things we no longer talk about tcp/ip in the general public you know in the early days of the internet the only people who used it were.
Very sophisticated very technical people and they were capable of doing so much and that was because the internet could do so.
Little and they had to carry the load for them so things like tcp/ip and in these ideas they kind of faded into the backdrop.
They're necessary they're useful technologists iterate and evolve and build things on top of them but at the end of the day the consumer doesn't care consumer looks.
At things like does my skype work or not you know am I having a good high quality call or is.
It crackly and there's high.
Latency or something like that if we can achieve the same thing we've achieved with the internet that it just works and it just works well but do that for money then I think we can have some really magical revolutionary things for example I believe we'll have this idea.
Of a universal wallet just recently I was actually on a trip throughout Europe I was in Ukraine I was in Greece I was in Switzerland and I was in London and England and all these countries have one thing.
In common which is they have different money so Ukraine's money's different than the Euro which.
Is Greece's money is different from the franc which is Switzerland's money which is the pound which is England's money but.
I never once used a currency exchange and I never once used the local money I had my card and every time I bought something that card would go from u.s. dollars to the local currency so I'd actually didn't care what the local currency was I.
Just had to kind of.
The back of my mind track what am i spending so could you imagine a future where.
All of your assets live in a wallet a digital wallet or you have some tokenize gold and tokenize stock but even more exotic things like tokenize airline miles or maybe.
You tokenize your house and so part of its like a reverse mortgage and you have some tokens in there maybe you pre sell your labor you put it there and when you go in to Starbucks or to McDonald's or any of these places they always will.
Charge the same dollars so when you go and cap your cellphone to pay you're gonna pay an airline miles or your labor or your house and they get dollars they didn't know that you paid.
An airline miles that some decentralized market making network took.
Care of all that process now if we can get to that reality we start caring a lot less about our local money.
It doesn't really matter if you live in Argentina and the peso is not doing so good because you can just rebalance your portfolio and say you know I'm actually pretty long on the dollar I'm just gonna go for that or I like gold so I want to store all my.
Wealth there so now what we've done is we have taken a person where their financial life is determined by geography and we've now put them in the driver's seat of their financial life they get to make the final.
Say about their portfolio and how they store their assets and by the way every single one of these assets.
Are going to be secured they're gonna be well accounted for they're gonna be free of fraud or a lot more resistant.
To fraud they're gonna move at the speed of light you're gonna be able to buy and sell them at a fair price and there's no longer a siloing effect that.
Occurs where your equities live here and your bonds live here and your currencies live there and your commodities live there they're all.
Just treated as the same under the same type of protocol and they float just as fast as email if by 2030 I think that the cryptocurrencies.
That we'll have become the greatest innovation of the last five hundred to a thousand years since the invention of banking and the invention of the printing press that just be an amazing future to live in you welcome everyone to the karna no effect podcast episode 1.
The purpose of this podcast is to take information in Cardno and break it down into a more consumable manner so we're taking that high developer information and breaking.
It down into chunks so everyone can feel extremely involved within the community I want to thank everyone.
For like commenting and subscribing seems like we already have an audience and I'm very excited thank you so much thanks for all of your support so who is this podcast for this podcast is for everyone so if you just found this podcast by random or you're on youtube you're surfing.
And you've never heard of cryptocurrency before this podcast is for you if you purchased or invested in Bitcoin or you've heard of Bitcoin and you just want to learn more this podcast is for you if you already have graduated to that bitcoin stage.
And you're looking for an altcoin or different crypto currencies this podcast is for you if you've heard the term third-generation blockchain and you want to learn more about it this podcast is for you if you are an investor if you are an early investor a late investor you bought at the top you bought at.
The bottom you but wherever you could be an IC o---- investor this podcast is for you if you're a dreamer like me and you see yourself long.
Term within this ecosystem this podcast is for you and last but not least if you have.
Qualms with the project and you don't like card on Oh for some reason this podcast is.
For you we are going to be including an email.
Address down below in the description is called a card ah no effect at gmail.com so if you have questions comments or concerns you can.
Shoot a question over to that email address we're going to.
Amalgamate those and we are going to do a Q&A session every couple of weeks and we're gonna try to get to as.
Many community questions as possible try to sum everything up and we're going to give the best possible answers that we can give we may not reach to every single question but we're gonna try to get to every single one and of course you can always comment below so before I pass the.
Baton over to Rick I want to preface this by saying that this is not financial advice and none of what we speak of should be taken as financial advice you are your best financial advisor and if you don't think you are you need to find someone that's qualified to do so because.
It's not us we are just a group of people who are very passionate about cryptocurrency and in particular very passionate about Cardno so that being said you could take this and you listen.
And you try to absorb the information but don't take it as financial advice you need to do your own research you need to do your own diligence so with that I'm gonna pass the baton over to Rick he's gonna introduce himself he's the other host of the Cardinal effect and.
He's also going to introduce our special guest Rick Thank You Philippe.
I appreciate the introductions there and also given people a good rundown of what we're doing here at the cargando effect welcome everyone glad.
To have you here we're very excited to get this show on the road this is our Genesis block of the.
Car dyno program this is getting getting our podcast up and off the ground we hope this provides.
A really good communication medium for the community to get information out of car Don oh.
And also receive feedback from the community and Philippe did a great job describing that so I'm just going to continue on with what.
We have here so if we have Philippe as a host I'm gonna be a host and we also have our special guests tonight Sebastien who's also.
Going to be a future guest host when we have highly technical things things are highly technical nature and we want to boil them down to you know how can the average crypto investor understand how does this information apply to me and how does it make the Cardano ecosystem work okay so that's just a little bit.
Of description of what this podcast is about and tonight's episode is based on the three primary people that will be working these podcasts and in the future we'll have addition we'll have other guests on based off of your request like I put out in the promo video as we start getting.
Feedback and we did get a few point come backward people would like to get involved so we'll get more information from the community in the future so next I'm going to pass over to mr. Sebastian Ghia mount he's one of the mergo employees who's been involved.
The system for a very long time and people don't quite well so Sebastian over to you sir hey everyone maybe you've already seen me in my youtube videos I think we all do YouTube videos in this podcast but my videos are usually focused on the actual.
Technology and since I attend to over the papers over the code the specifications this kind of stuff and try and explain it the videos I make tend to be for a technical audience that is to.
Say if you're not really familiar with technology and you want to understand the concept card I know my videos may be useful but you're not really the target audience I try and make my videos for the developers in.
The ecosystem right so somebody who's curious about.
How the research is applied in more details and wants to build something either off of card nos which card I know you'd be able to go through my video understand what's happening you know possibly do some derivative research or works and so.
That's kind of the purpose of the content I created that's essentially why it.
Has kind of business value former go right and so a damn ergo I do Rd in general so I do some programming and this kind of stuff but also I spend a.
Fair amount of my time doing these explainer videos and explainer blogs and it's kind stuff Thank You Sebastian all right so what we're gonna do is we're gonna go on to one of our first subject areas in this in this video in the Genesis block the big colony and so there's four subject areas and then a bonus.
Discussion at the end or three subject areas and a bonus discussion at.
The end and the first error going to talk about is how did.
You get into crypto personally each person here then the next one is how did you first learn of Cardno third will be.
Why are you dedicating your efforts to Cardno vice and the other crypto and the idea behind that question is you know.
What makes card I know worth investing your time and money promoting it and being involved and forth if we get to if we get there what does mass adoption mean and we're not talking about when Lambeau we're talking about you know how would the average.
Person get to the point of using crypto okay so um if you guys are okay with the who wants to lead off you want me to roll with it or how did you get into crypto I can start off so I have to recollect all.
Of my thoughts but crypto started I was aware of crypto back in you know like everyone.
You started with Bitcoin and you progressed forward but I have first heard of Bitcoin in 2011-2012 but I did not invest unfortunately I was in college my brother and I.
Were reading around and we found it online and you know the whole dark web thing and we we just got associated with in that not to do any legalities just as business purposes mining and whatnot but that's where I first heard a Bitcoin did not invest did not mine and I followed it for the years that.
Led afterwards and I really did not become an investor until May of 2017 so last year so like a year and a half.
Ago and you know I followed the mount got sting and I was like oh wow this is this is an.
Issue but then the whole aetherium run and the hype started building again and I looked into it a little bit deeper and I was like I need to get more involved in this face I need to see what's going on so that's when I first got into crypto that's when I first.
Learned of crypto and.
From then you know I've been literally eating breathing and sleeping crypto for the past year and a half I look at it all day and I'm always on news articles reading and researching and.
One thing led to another I jump from Bitcoin I found other all coins that I that I found interesting and you know and then let.
Me to here and now I'm on this podcast with you but that's my story about how I got in Krypto had learned a crypto and yes alright so I guess I'll pick it up from here oh so how did I get into crypto well it started basically in about.
2013 but it actually preceded that but really getting into crypto start about 2013 I have two sons who first started getting involved prior to 2013 with different digital currencies and I heard the name Bitcoin so basically I.
Had heard of Bitcoin prior to 2013 and then in 2013 my son started mining little bits of crypto currencies using GPU miners like dark coin like coin feathercoin then he got me looking at it you know because being data for AI for kids you know a busy life and they're like.
Hey Dad check this out and I'm always into tech I mean I kind of work into tech during the day and crypto at night kind of thing but um so I thought it was really interesting I said hey this is a really.
Cool idea and I started mining net coin which like completely crashed it's completely obliterated but um that's how that's how I first got into crypto but my real first crypto well what really got my.
Attention is my son was mining things like the dark coin and feather coin and so I got some visual aids I got some props here.
I got a mask the private key it's like this feather coin and he would he would uh sell on eBay so he minded it basically the cost of nothing and then then he would sell it on eBay a little bit more the value because people would see a.
Tangible object right they could say oh look that's something I.
Can purchase for like for like five bucks for a paper certificate there was only worth maybe two or three bucks or something like that and then he would mail it to him because back then email out it and I was like wow people actually like this stuff.
It's not just a gimmicky hobby if you can transaction this stuff on eBay then there's some value to it and so they're real big on 2013 I bought my very first Bitcoin there it is it's a Cassation e and that's when.
It really clicked and I was like wow these guys are onto something because it's digital it lives inside the computer you can extract it and stick it into a physical.
Object that other humans can hold in their hand because you know and.
And I was like amazed so fortunately that's that's my only Bitcoin I just I wanted to invest a lot more into it but that's really when it's when the crypto bug got into me was at that point but what predated crypto was you know in the late 1990s when I had silver coins I would collect little.
Silver coins and I go.
Wow this is a silver dime and its face value says 10 cents but its value in weight was like two dollars and ninety cents three dollars and 20 cents and it kept going up and then gold came up about and.
I thought oh I need to get in that go buy never had any money because like I'm a working guy so whatever money I have is what comes from my paycheck and and I was like oh man I shouldn't invest in gold or I should take out.
A loan and buy gold because I watched the price go from like $250 to $300 in gold and I started realizing well this this is going somewhere so but I missed that boat and then Along Came Bitcoin and it went.
From like 250 when I bought it to a thousand I'm like oh my gosh it quadrupled in value I wish I would've bought more and I thought I missed that boat there.
Was only a thousand dollars right and then after that with Bitcoin the next one was aetherium and I remember julian assange tweeting about aetherium when it was only like about 60 bucks roughly and he put a bunch of he said hey which cryptocurrency should.
WikiLeaks divest into any any illicit he said aetherium Manero and a couple others he put on that list and aetherium hit the top and by the you know by the time the tweet run its course over a couple of days if 31 was like 60 to 65 bucks like oh I need to get into that one.
In a year later I was like ah I missed that boat you know it so I was like that was.
That was basically my bet my history on crypt so I was a the average guy kind of buyer just getting my feet wet.
Making all kind of novice mistakes I mean there's a lot of painful mistakes to be learning crypto but anyway that's that's basically how did I get.
Into crypto in kind of a long and convoluted way all right so uh Sebastian what do you have to say about this how'd you get into crypto yeah so I came in in about 2013 right so I'd.
Seen on Reddit and whatever like price of Bitcoin hits a thousand or whatever I was like I've heard this a few times before like.
Why is it.
Hitting the news all the sudden I should kind of check it out and kind of read up into it and it was kind of interesting concept you know I studied math and this kind of stuff and at a time I was you know just starting University but you know it's you know studying math is kinda.
Stuff is like it's pretty cool idea like you know if we tried.
To build a currency on the kind of a mathematical basis of some kind right and so as I was looking into it and my little brother's friends like a few of them own some bitcoins and like oh my god we just made a huge amount of money and whatever and.
You know they're they're they're kind of talking about it like oh yo this is.
So cool and whatever and I mean I don't have enough money to buy anything I don't even have.
Any money at all like I just entered University or whatever so I didn't bind me or whatever but somewhere little brothers fans like oh we can you.
Know send you a small amount over for.
You to kind of play around with got a feel for what what it's like but the consciousness of it is you know how do you install a wallet and what it means to transact with pick whatever so you.
Know that small amount from them and then you know we spent it on a few stuff you know like I bought you know Humble Bundle which is like a.
Bundle video games you know it's fairly fairly cheap purchase and they accepted Bitcoin time I'm not sure if they still do and you know I tried out.
You know it is pretty painful you know you're wearing this like you know UI they swallowed like a really terrible UI it takes like three days to sing the client of the point is everything how it was like a few days to sing the client so.
You can finally receive your coin and then you like send it over it to purchase the Humble Bundle and it's like please wait and you like waiting you're waiting you earlier wisely what happened it just disappeared into thin air.
Like what happened but no I just turned up it climbs like a really long confirmation time.
Now I was like yeah.
I was impressed by the concept but then I really yeah it's it's not bad great like there's a huge amount of flaws.
And you know this is like really hard to get into and whatever so I was like clearly somebody must have improved on this you know for any research problem yet like ever.
You know this first version comes out people try and improve on and whatever so I started looking into like kind of work or to be alternatives around so I checked out a few other like out coins at the time and.
There's some pretty cool concepts at that time I was hoping nothing really.
Interested me so I kind of dropped all this base at a point that's kind of mindful walking the trip doing well that's entering it's interesting so all three of us came from three different directions and end up landing it roughly the same point all right thanks.
For that Sebastian Philippe we are on the next area is how did you first learn of Cardin oh no I let off with the first round with how did you get into crypto wait Philippe let off with the how did you how did you get.
Into crypto so Philippe you want to lead us off with how did you first learn of Cardin oh okay well I first learned of Cardno through Charles's whiteboard video as did many people it was a great whiteboard video released at the.
End of 2017 I believe November ish might have been late October ish but that whiteboard video really introduced me into card I know.
But I want to give a little backdrop of my journey looking for this out like it it just made sense and you know I was getting into crypto a lot more during the summer of 2017 I was investing investing investing moving things around looking at different all projects like Sebastian was.
Saying a lot of them didn't catch my eye you know I actually go and look through the white paper.
Although I don't understand everything all the time.
I still look to see if there's a business model behind it and then I saw Charles's video and you know Charles he saw he's very eloquent.
And what he was saying resonated with me completely and it really got the gears turning in my head and I introduced myself earlier as a dreamer as a person that literally wants to exist.
Within the system and I think that Charles provided that.
Through that whiteboard video because one of the things that he stretched on was this idea of interoperability and this was a very powerful term to me I I saw that there could be a connection between you know.
The the bridge between the regular Fiat world and the crypto world is sometimes very unclear and that that that term really allows me as a an investor to understand that you know it's not one system dies the other the other prospers but two systems can live simultaneously and you know that that's just what really led me to.
This project I bring some props as well and I have a story about this whole idea of like people within the system and moving onto crypto and basically I was at the bank the other day and this lady next to me was saying something around the lines like oh she.
Went up to the teller and it was probably 9 a.m. 10 a.m. in the morning and the line is full and of course you're waiting in line to get your.
Money out of the bank which doesn't make much sense but the lady in front of me goes up to the teller and asks the.
Teller can I have a thousand can I withdraw $1,000 I'm going on vacation next week.
And it was the weirdest question I've ever heard because like it's the person's account with the person's money and they're asking like permission I know who's met as more of a light-hearted joke but like the matrix thing in my head just like clicked like there needs to be just this the system.
Can't be the only one that exists and then coupled that with all the information that came out with the whiteboard videos and checking out the website and just seeing the level of professionalism in the level of.
Business IOH kay does I mean not only was this like a dream or cryptocurrency project but i ohk is an actual legitimate business so many crypto projects out there are not businesses they do not have they do not run a business and if you do not run a business on.
Top of your project your project will fail because the balance sheets are gonna fall.
Out of whack as soon.
As your ice q1e runs out that's it but i which k is a cryptocurrency starter they're successful and that coupled with charles coupled with the.
Direction i saw the project going that's really my introduction into Cardno all right thanks Philippe I'll roll with the with this one here how did I first learn of Cardno well this is an interesting story I was in my kitchen and it was about this time last year early.
November maybe late October roughly about this timeframe and I had just start started leaning towards investing more into cryptocurrencies and my sons were talking about aina now they were talking about all.
Different kind of things EOS was starting to come online and there was a couple other icos that were big in.
Name I had not heard of the card I know ICO but it was about this time last year and so I have two sons and my one son was talking about it pretty passionately about the information he said.
Dad you got to check out this video and he pulled up the Charles Hoskinson whiteboard video that Philippe had just mentioned and I watched this now.
The interesting thing is in in my line of work there are scientists who do.
This kind of work I don't understand the math.
Like Sebastian you know like Sebastian came you know he understands the math I don't get the math I look at the final output product of these really brilliant scientists and they'll explain to me how things work and.
How they develop the math and as long as I can see the output product and understand it and use it as.
A tool to do my job I'm good you know it almost doesn't even matter what was that math in the background.
And when I saw Charles explaining this it really got my attention and I said I'm gonna go find this stuff fortunately my sons.
Had already done the research on it and I knew where to go to go find it and I started getting involved with Cardno start investing in it and maybe a week later a video from dr. Duncan coots came out and I was like wow okay I mean these videos were starting to knock my.
Socks off and I thought I'm not seeing this level of science and research being applied.
There were the three big major factors that the Charles described what a cryptocurrency has to do but once I started seeing.
All the research going into it and the thought I thought I realized this is the thing for me at least this definitely has a future so not really the the business side I wasn't even thinking the business side hadn't even crossed my mind as Philippe had mentioned from the business angle that I which Kay has which.
Is awesome and the mergo has which is great what was crossing in my mind was the science behind it the fact they were doing all this research and that there were white papers have to be read although there were many other white papers out on Kryptos that.
Particular white paper caught my attention so that's really how I first learned of Cardno and as more videos came out from IO HK it kept grabbing more and more of my attention and I said wow these these guys are really guys and gals Mareth did.
One on security and I realized wow they are very proactive in getting these videos out they know how to communicate and I think the between the science they're able to communicate science to me the average guy and they were able to communicate the via these.
Excellent YouTube videos I mean you just have to say there ain't that's all there's to it and that's what hooked me and that's when I said you know what I'm going to dive way deep into this line because I caught it early enough to where I can still you know I can make money off.
It because that's all I we do this but I can also learn from it and maybe maybe somehow be a pioneer in this field something that you know I've never been able to do before I hadn't caught it early enough but this is one that I caught early enough I could get heavily involved.
And that's where we're at now so that's my story that's my how did I first learn of carried on.
Oh Sebastian you're on deck sir yes so I kind of got back into the space as the hype kind of started building up around it and I was like well I wonder what's change right if the privacy like skyrocketing or whatever like hopefully something's changed the technology and you know there there's a reason for.
This this hype startet start looking into it and sure enough.
Found etherium and I thought it's a really cool idea the the concept of you know adapt and whatever and so I started kind of doing a really deep dive into aetherium learning for my.
Contracts peering through the yellow paper and all this kind of stuff and you.
Know obviously every project has its engineering flaws and whatever it was not a perfect project but I you know is I was getting pretty involved in its not in the community side but just on the technology side and at the same time I was you know chemo I out open for other projects you know what.
Else is going on the space house has it evolved since I kind of came in last time and I bests when I found Cardno and so I was reading car down on the first line description or something like you know cryptocurrency based off a Haskell I was like oh my.
God I got a read more into this because at the time that's kind of like a amateur Haskell or which you know kind of came naturally from.
Doing a setting both computer science and math and so I was like oh man somebody's building a cryptocurrency Bissau this I gotta check this out and I.
Was looking into him more I think what really hooked me was the fact that Cardinal was a project with mathematical rigor and this is like a concept that is you know really drilled into you if you take a math major in university the.
Fact that whenever you make a statements you have to have a rigorous proof for it and the ability to write a proof that is rigorous and you know understand the importance of a rigorous proof it's basically what a math major is trying.
To teach you and so in fact like I don't want to kind of story that stuck with me when I was going through you know a math courses university was you know I had like a third year there a third year look course in math at some point and we've had a midterm you know you get a midterm you.
Have you know now we're gonna have to solve it it's like five questions or.
Whatever and they're fairly long and complicated questions I was going through one of them and I had the question right except near the end I like messed up and ended up getting a zero on that question I went to the professor like after he ended bhakti you know grated midterms like come.
On zero like I got the entire fruit crack cephalopods party made some mistake in whatever and his answer as you know it for mathematic lets you know proof there's you know two results either it's true or it's not and your case is not and.
You know if it's not true it gets a zero and you know I think that's kind of I still think that's kind of too strict for you know educational purposes but I mean in the real world that.
That is true right if you have a proof and it's it's it's false is not worth anything right you've made a mistake and.
That's kind of the the importance of math mathematical rigor right you have to have a formal proof that your statement really is correct and I thought the only the the people working on card I know respect this they made it like a fundamental pillar of.
Their project and you know there's other cryptocurrencies that do dabble and research and do dabble in implementation of research papers but none of them really had it as a you know fundamental pillar.
Such as cardinal and that's kind of got got me really interested in the project and the canals I was going through it and the documentation and the code and everything I was reading through you know I realize this is a very technical project.
And if you don't have kind of a backer on this topic that's there's no way you could understand what's going on and I thought you know this is maybe a unique role for me to play and kind of an educational psychic said I've always liked teaching people and this kind of stuff and so you know.
I even in high school I used to.
Teach younger kids and university I ran a mentor course for free for other students and always like this kind teaching stuff so like you know I can you know leverage my knowledge to help people understand us and so I.
Started YouTube channel to kind of job you know upload some videos me talking about the project and that's kind of how I got started so uh the next question to.
The lineup today's why are you getting dedicating your efforts to Cardno vice any other.
Crypto and this is in the context of okay we're putting but between the three of us here we all have previous YouTube channels that we have created for Cardno related matters and other crypto related matters and so this question is really asking why did we pursue our efforts.
Down the line of Cardno and who would like to lead off are we gonna continue the round robin with you Phillipe sure so why Cardinal versus any other project out there.
I mean I know there's a small list of third-generation blockchains why do I get attached to this one why did I pretty much dedicate my YouTube channel to Cardno and.
Say can go for Rick and Sebastian that's a good question um to.
Tell you the truth what a little bit of what everyone was saying the scientific and mathematical rigor of this project is.
Incredible and I know people make fun of this all the time on Twitter and on Reddit and on YouTube a lot this whole idea of peer reviewed but it's a serious deal.
If you've been to university if you've been to college and you've written a paper and you've had it peer reviewed or you've submitted a.
Thesis and it doesn't even have to be format it.
Can be for any subject you.
Realize how difficult it is because it's.
One thing to know information more than the next person.
So if there's a cryptographer you could tell me what cryptography is and I'd have to believe them solely on the fact that he's a cryptographer and he knows more about that subject at me but to submit a paper to an academic conference the top conferences in the.
World and every idea that you have you write it into a paper and you get it peer-reviewed that's a whole nother ballgame I mean the they're they're getting their papers reviewed by other people that.
Are pretty much geniuses in the field regarded as geniuses in the field they've innovated they've created new things they've invented things and all their life revolves around figuring.
Out what the best math and the best science is for that particular topic and I just don't see any other projects going forward so if you're telling me that you're a third generation blockchain and you're implementing this this protocol you're you're doing proof of stake are you putting something in your project I.
Just have to believe you solely because you told me that I can't verify it but if someone else is verifying it who's an.
Expert on that field that just.
Boosts up the credibility so I think that's one of the most underrated features of Cardno and it's a reason why I've gravitated towards this pred project because there are checks and balances in place to protect the entire project's integrity I I'm not a coder my.
Brother's a coder and it's like.
He codes and.
There could be a sloppy line of code in his code and I'm not sure I can't tell him it's a sloppy line of code until someone else finds that sloppy.
Line of code and I feel like Cardno puts processes in place to prevent these kind of things from happening or to limit the amount of glitches.
That are going to be going on within the system and at the end of the day we're playing with people's money here I mean people are investing a large amount of their net worth into this project whether it's good financial advice or not we all know that.
People are putting more than they're willing to lose in two.
Projects and we know that people are going to want to if it accomplishes what it's supposed to accomplish people are going to.
Want to live with inside the ecosystem which means that a large portion of people's net worth is going to be in this system so do you want to be in a system that wasn't peer reviewed or wasn't audited a thousand times or wasn't.
Looked at by the experts in the field or do you just want to say oh this person said so so it is and I I I truly believe that card I know when I looked.
At card on oh it's really one of a kind.
In the field I mean.
All these other crypto projects they focus on different use cases but within the space of smart contracts within this particular third-generation blockchain and comparing with aetherium which is second generation it stands leagues apart because of the rigor that is attached to this project and I think.
That this is why I gravitated to with this project and this is why I'll continue to follow this project and I really see myself within this.
Ecosystem all right Thank You Philippe I'll go with the next one so why did I.
Dedicate my efforts to the Cardno project well I'm kind of like the boiled frog I didn't intend to it's just a.
Sequence of events ended up landing me on putting more attention onto their card ah no project and the card ah no and ADA more so than others so again I go back to the time kind of like revisit the time of about a year.
Ago today and then work my way forward to now the present so about a year ago today my only interest in karana was ooh neat science very small price big money on the way and that was it that's all I cared about and that's what a lot of people that's all they care about.
And there was all these different crypto currencies laid out before me it was right before the big bull run and aetherium I think there were murmurs about Caspar at the time.
Or some sort of proof of snake something that was going to prove improve aetherium there was talk about Lightning Network coming out for Bitcoin and.
Stuff like that and had some had some electronic Bitcoin and had some electronic theorem - it was another one and so you know looking through Cojimar cap they were so everything's top ten.
And I've looked onto the list and I go wow look at all these different cooped-up currencies but over time would happen is.
Card I know just kind of soaked in on me like I said bullfrog so by you know mid late December last year there was this bull run kicking in and then I heard it from ergo and I thought wow there's other companies getting.
Involved with this I didn't know how the relationships worked at the time but uh and I saw the emerge out of shibuya Japan and I.
Thought oh wow there's a lot of Japanese centric here I don't know how the Japanese are you know I visit Japan a couple times a year sometimes and I was like yeah this is this is good stuff so it kind of drew me in even more and then track SIA and I found out about that I was.
Like wow I could get involved with an ICO and I could I could actually get in on the ground floor of an ICO and I have a track C a t-shirt I was gonna wear tonight.
But it's a little bit too bright blue in his dark lighting it made me glow like a ghost I wasn't a can't wear that but maybe next podcast who knows so anyway I learned from her go and.
Then track SIA and the additional information about Cardno where it was going and all the different versions of Ouroboros and they're really cool names I mean the ancient Greek mythology names of Cardona really got my attention I said wow that's cool like you know I made a.
Reddit name a while back it was kind of hard I know related and using ancient Greek mythology names and I still had all these other coins like nano nano had an awesome day still do nano has an awesome community Doge.
Has this awesome community but nano was really coming up online I have no idea how their security works right.
Nanos a super fast coin and I was like oh look I could get involved with nano and I can support them not not the ledger nano but the cryptocurrency called nano and they have a very engaging in very lively community and then I found the card on Oh.
Form okay you know at the forum dr..
Donna or girl hover the URL is and that was probably by.
Maybe February or March maybe earlier than that of 2018 of this year and the people in the car Dino forum were great I mean that we had really lively and engaging conversations we had controversial conversations there were disagreements there were people trying.
To help other people learn and that's really what I liked I was like oh.
Wow this guy's helping this guy learn that fellows having technical difficulties and had this technical forum where some guy you know it could not get into his wallet because he had an error or whatever that error was and here's two other people chiming in and helping that guy out and he got they got their wallet fixed and.
I was like man this is great and these are volunteers so that kind of inspired me know I know other communities have that too and that's great I just didn't know that you know what I.
Mean so that's one of those things where I got lucky and I stumbled across it or I ran across the link somewhere during the course of doing some research and so that's what really drew me in was the characters and the.
Personalities on the card on Oh form Sebastian was there I remember seeing him on there and Phillipe showed up some time.
Mid last year maybe around maybe March June May I don't have a time on it my memory is really bad with time I'm getting old and it just doesn't take those like he used to but it was the community on a karana form I was not a big user of telegram I first started using telegram like.
Two years ago or three years ago then there was that big telegram hack and my eat my email address actually showed up on the dark web which is a bad thing it was flagged by Experian because I use Experian as the my financial monitoring.
Defense mechanism for what I'm gonna call it you know and they said hey your email address showed up on the dark web and I've traced it and I followed the breadcrumbs and found out oh it came from the telegram hack or whatever happened I mean I can't say that for certain for a fact it's.
Just the little pieces of.
Data I put together so I stopped using telegram but then so after I got involved the telegram form while I.
Was there I found out that people were using telegram to communicate and I thought ah I need to see how that works and I mean how's it how's it working out for that community so then I.
Got in on telegram and found this very lively conversation so.
The nice thing about the Cardinal form is you had these threaded discussions that were organized by subjects and organized by you know links and you can make your own link you can create your own.
Subject and that was great and then I found out about telegram which all the Kryptos have it and I think it's awesome use of communication power and I.
Said this is like the best thing since sliced bread and the people in the telegram were extremely helpful and.
Like like make sense this lively very engaging conversation in real time 24 hours a day and just kind of blew my mind and so I said wow this is cool and it's.
At some point I think was about June I.
Started making my youtube videos I started with this is how to like my videos are how do you do a procedure which it really doesn't get a lot of likes because people go up that's how you do.
Procedure okay great you don't subscribe to that kind of stuff you just look it.
Up when you need it or you ignore it when you don't need it but I started making those.
Kind of videos because that's all I know how to do and like there's one on a.
Ledger there something on track SIA there's a thing on Spade which made plans on adopting Cardno and I'd done on the videos and then I found wow people really like these Cardno videos I don't know if it's the name like you put it in the name in the title or you put the name in the meta-data down below on.
Youtube channel but it garnered more attention so although I was already kind of leaning into card I know as it is that kind of dreamy moron I was like well these are actually working so let me kind of like build momentum with Cardno and then I can branch out into other directions so that's.
Where I'm at now so I'm gonna go back to doing other videos that make that lead outside the Carano ecosystem over on my other channel digital fortress but here with the Carano effect now that we're here I mean this is why I dedicated efforts oh god I know now.
That we're here at this point today with the card I know effect podcast we're gonna break out even more so we're gonna get a lot of energy focused on card I know via this podcast and.
Through the brilliant ideas coming from Sebastian and Philippe both of them they have great ideas coming out.
We're going to branch out into other areas and invite people to where we can build.
Bridges with other communities via this podcast okay so speaking of great ideas that leads us to sebastian on why are you dedicating efforts to card ah no vice any other crypto over to you yes it's kind of like what I was mentioning before with the mathematical rigor and all this kind of stuff.
What it really boils down to is the reason I stuck with it is just you know curiosity right I mean maybe you know but the Iowa skate team is huge right and the American team is also growing more so this year than before but you know there's a lot of people working on this project right and.
So at the time.
When I was.
You know getting involved in cardio I was still working at Microsoft as an engineer and so you know that was taking application out of my time but you know I would come back home every day and kind.
Of read up on it briefly and during the weekends I would just spend my weekend you know sitting down and go through all the commits for the github.
Repo and just read all the code and figure out what's happening really at the low-level scale and then.
Make a video about it going okay this is what happened this week this is all the code s change this is why the.
COI change and what it means I'll see there's a huge limitation to what I could do from the outside cuz you know if you're a software engineer you know a lot of the code comes you know undocumented based on some random internal discussion right so there's a limit to.
How much I could do which is the fact that there was a seemingly never-ending stream of just content I could consume to you know improve my understanding of blog team car dianna project you know sometimes you you read some you.
Know really good Haskell solution to a problem you know contest that's interesting and sometimes you you find some really nice mathematical solutions your problem really well that's just really cool and so.
This kind of stuff just kept coming out in the fact like even now that there's more people working for educate there's more papers and cold coming outs then you know one person can keep up with and so you know I try my best to kind of triage the material like okay this thing I think is worth spending.
My time looking into this thing maybe not and there's more cool things that I'd like to look into than I have time to spend in the day and you know that's kind of sad and so because of that someone decisions.
I drove me to leave Microsoft to go work for robo consumer go is you know see my videos as kind of stuff and their other time thinking of starting an R&D department right and so Nikko who is the currency cube from ergo reached.
Out to me he's like hey do you want to join Amory go help us build our you know R&D department I've seen some of your videos it's really cool and so I ended up joining.
Out to be able to spend more time cargando to you know increase the amount of stuff I can link into and you know it's been an amazing ride ever since and since.
That Amory go where you know I basically paid to you read these papers and read this code and build.
Project to and you know write my own code and this is really amazing for me so this is why I've kind of you know stayed involved yeah that must.
Be fantastic being able to well for one going from Microsoft it's like oh Microsoft is a dream job but then you have this maybe this to some people might think that but then you see.
This new frontier that you're interested in and you're like hey you know what I can get on that early.
Is that Ken he'll win yeah I.
Mean you is part of just saying what I want to do with my life rights I mean max was really great I loved were cameras off the the work-life balance is really good the stuff I was working on was pretty cool I think but you know at that time I was working.
On being the search engine which i think is the team you've been proud of working on because being really has I mean why don't being makes a lot of money and so you can be proud to know you're working on a project that makes money but beyond that I mean being it really has me search results better even not.
Through just being itself but the fact that Google has to compete with being you.
Can see internally when we launched a feature when we improve our search rails on one thing a few months later like Google comes and competes and so you can visually see based on our metrics that you know we're making the world a better place and so that's really good but you know I thought I could have a bigger.
Impact with with our Dano and with my time on this project and you know.
It's really excited to be kind of you know this exciting field of research and be able to contribute to it and so that was too appealing for me to to pass up on and also like even though I was working in Microsoft it was really can soon in my life Riccardi on a project because you.
Know I'm Microsoft and my team we had a system where every week one person one team would present about new technology just to make sure everybody on the team is aware.
Of what's happening in the space because often times when people have kids and whatever they stop really looking into the technology and they kind of start falling behind so to avoid that happening Microsoft encouraged.
Everybody to keep learning right and every week we'd have a presentation you know I did one by aura Boris and I explained all the papers and how it works and whatever and people really.
Loved it and I got really good feedback on that I was like wow people it's not just me like people I really love this subject as like a research field at the time doing the presentation I made.
A point of not matching watching it was like a purely what have you had a distributed system you wanted these properties and whatever and I feel like people are much more receptive if you just don't mention watching you.
Mentioned it's a mathematical problem you're trying to solve and then there's a Haskell meetup in Seattle that I went to every now and then and I said.
Hey I should do a presentation on the wallet specification and Haskell Mia so I went through the wall specification how it is and how its programmed Haskell and.
That kind of all works together so I was you know doing all this stuff as if it was like part of my job already and people really loved it.
And so I think that's also and the reason so I thought this is a great opportunity to make it my job by joining a very go well that must've made for a really nice transition and plus you could take you know the things that you.
Learned from Microsoft you may be consciously or subconsciously could like roll right into roll that into what you do team or go alright Phillipe yes yes so what's the.
Last question Rick that's.
That was a great answer Sebastian I think that's really cool and I mean if people are not understanding exactly how big that transition is that Sebastian did that's huge I mean like Rick was saying Microsoft you're working for Microsoft you're working for Google or you're working.
For Facebook any of these large fortune 500 companies that run the world and you kind of leave that.
To go to an emerging technology just to go just shows you how much conviction you have to have within that emerging technology and you know I echo whatever Sebastian felt to move forward I mean that's that's very reassuring.
I think I mean I think that's a great story I I think you agree with me Rick yes sir I absolutely do agree with you okay so I'm just gonna roll this into the podcast so right now I've got I show 759 p.m. on my computer so it's been about 50 minutes we're looking at least another.
10 minutes left we're gonna go with a natural kind of flow on this podcast so if it rolls over and out off it rolls up to an hour and a half that's perfectly fine I'm gonna use the Joe Rogan roll and the Joe Rogan rule is like an hour to an hour and a half now what I'm not gonna.
Do like Joe Rogan is like bust open a bottle of Kabuki and and hit of blood okay that ain't gonna happen on this podcast I've got my water or my coffee and that's what I'm gonna use so we're looking like we got at least 20 minutes left in our last round table.
Question here that we have is when lambo are just kidding not one demo we don't want.
To do that context it's a the question what does mass adoption mean you guys have probably heard Charles bring this question out many people bring it out I've seen this on other podcast and other YouTube channels that are dedicated to mass adoption or discussing mass adoption and there's some.
Really good podcasts out there and I highly recommend that you review those but we're also going to touch on subjects like that up during this podcast so what we'll do is we'll we roll over to Phillipe and try to get what does this mass adoption thing mean you know what how does that fit for you.
Rick that's a great question so that's the I think that's like the billion or if you want to consider a trillion dollar.
Question for cryptocurrency when mass adoption and people have been touting that mass adoption is coming soon it's you know it might be next month it might be next week or it might be in 2020 when the next having happens.
But there's a lot of conflicting as to what mass adoption is and you know people are on the assumption that everyone's gonna drop everything and run to crypto and I think that's highly improbable I was talking.
To Rick a while.
Ago and I was saying that you know people are still having trouble inserting their cards into the slots at like Walmart you know like they still put it the opposite way and then they're supposed.
To move to crypto they can.
Barely figure out their credit cards so we've got to take baby steps in order to.
Get to that quote-unquote mass adoption and like I said before two systems can run in parallel and still exist I don't think Fiat is dying anytime soon but there needs to be alternatives to the current system this is what I brought props for this question and I'm Haitian American first generation born in the United States and both my family.
Both my parents sides they live in Haiti and.
Right here this is the Haitian goon which is the currency for Haiti and as you can see there's a twenty five ten of ten various five so print it on fresh a off the press and the reason why I bring this today is because you.
Know one of the things that drew me to crypto was this idea of an alternate system and Haiti is a very poor country if you're not familiar with Haiti it is a small little country in.
The Caribbean and it's very poor the average salary minimum wage in Haiti I mean used to be like two dollars a day US dollars I.
Think it's up to like five dollars and eleven cents but the good has lost around forty four percent of its value in the past five years so while inflation in this country happens at like.
Around 2% per year you know third world countries and developing countries feel the effect ten times worse so what I'm trying to get around is like this whole idea that the rest of the world is going are going through some serious issues the United States pretty much controls the monetary system for the world so if.
They're experiencing a little bit of inflate other countries are experiencing a lot of inflation and.
The mass adoption thing it's important because I think that value needs to be returned to people that actually produce goods and services for the rest of the world while you know they may not be working directly for you.
They're picking the goods they're picking the the raw materials.
That allow people in Western nations or more affluent nations to enjoy the lifestyle that they have and one of the things that Charles mentions is this idea of getting the unbanked population.
Within this ecosystem so I think that that's when we can start considering mass adoption the steps towards massive topic adoption happening I'm moving people that are working the people that are working from the ground up that are making their living on less than $2 a day or in the case that I just said making minimum wage let's say.
Five dollars five US dollars a day and are picking the raw materials that are gonna get shipped to China or going to get shipped to somewhere else for manufacturing or certain goods they need to great they need to.
Retain more value and they need to make sure that they can grow their little nest egg even if it's not a lot but being able to have a bank.
Account having a crypto account and have your money digitally digitally available for you and able to pass the little bit of money from generation to generation to.
Generation to bring you out of that never-ending cycle of poverty and I think that's where mass adoption starts starts it's not like the United States and Americans and Europeans and you know.
Japanese and Chinese people that are affluent not I'm saying that everyone within these countries is affluent but I'm saying that the.
People that are afternoon within these nations it's not about them moving all their assets to crypto but it's about moving the small little guy and little girl onto the crypto platform and allowing them to grow as people allowing their families to grow allowing them to flourish I think that's when we can consider mass adoption but the whole.
Idea of everyone dropping everything and running it's it's just not gonna happen not gonna happen the system itself right now it works doesn't work too well but it works better than what crypto does right now.
And eventually that things may switch but for now we need to focus on the people that are the most oppressed and then.
Work our way up and that's I think how we can quantify or the term mass adoption hey great points there Philippe and you know what you there's a mass adoption is such a complex matter that there's so many different angles you can.
Take to what you consider mass adoption like I just learned something from Philippe I didn't even look at it from the perspective although I've heard other other videos of talking about you know a lot of times we've got people from ihk traveling to like Ethiopia and other places and and they're trying to introduce it.
To people who need a financial system a stable financial system so that's only one thing that would drive mass adoption but I look at it from very.
Many different perspectives one of them is how do I buy a taco with it okay so to me that's to me that's like the benchmark question when I can go to Taco Bell and buy a taco with.
A de mass adoption has been achieved at least from my narrow minded perspective as an American not that Americans are now minded but from a narrow perspective if.
I could do that to me that's what a mass adoption would look like I could by talking with it now it might be a common question it comes up is that hey look at this really cool technology and all.
These great things we can do and I love that kind of stuff and then it boils down to how do i buy.
Hamburger or something so mass adoption how do we get there that then becomes a question how do we get to the point of mass adoption in my opinion it's each one of us those of us that understand crypto going out and finding just one other person and explain to them how how does.
Crypto work what is it why is there a benefit those are the kind of things that we can do to each person can do with mass adoption I'm not a developer the only.
Thing I do with software as I break it by.
Accident usually is what happens but um developers are not going to create the mass adoption developers are going to create the technology so we.
Can't keep putting the responsibility on the developers and say hey when mass adoption I'm just gonna collect crypto and sit back and say wait for the money to show up I can't do that we all have to take a little bit apart and get involved there's all something each of us could do of.
Course you don't want to be that an annoying guy in the office that sometimes gets referred to as dan and you know always doubting what cryptocurrencies are but if you take the time to explain to one other person how cryptocurrency works they'll have a better understanding like Philippe had mentioned earlier and it was a.
Real funny story too it was people putting their credit card in the machine wrong that's me.
I still do that I we have chips the u.s. is like halfway between slide and chip and now the u.s. is halfway between once you stick your chip in is it the green button or.
Is it the red button.
So now that I'm using my chip now I got to figure out.
Should I push the green button or the red button to get my transaction to complete and so even mass adoption.
Credit is considered mass adopted it still has its issues every time they change something so crypto is.
Still Wade its infancy and everybody who knows crypto now if you could just spell crypto and I like.
The word digital like digital currency because crypto carries this really nefarious kind of sound to it but anyway that's just my preference but if you can at least spell crypto you could probably explain to somebody else how to use it or what.
It does and eventually it'll catch on you know if it's.
A good thing it'll catch on because there's so many applications for it as mass adoption of place has so many different areas you got the stocks and bonds sector you got the buying tacos and hamburger sector and you have like mentioned you.
Have this sector of countries that are in need of.
A better financial system and so the mass adoption includes all these different aspects so anybody can implement mass adoption and speaking of developers and how developers could do that kind of stuff Sebastian what are your thoughts what do you think what is mass adoption what does that mean when.
Lambo yeah I mean I feel like mass adoption kind of has two components to it right one of them is the actual usage of the currency right can you really go by a talk lawyer and.
This kind of stuff and to a certain extent there already exists an.
Alternative economy based on cryptocurrencies right you know you can go around.
And use bitcoins or a DAW for.
A few various purposes it's not used everywhere it can't be used everywhere but there there is some you know subset of the economy that you know can be sustained by this model in fact a few people you know spend their lives trying to live you know unbanked right they try and move their arms in the cryptocurrency.
And they've kind of tweeted about or whatever so there's that component to mass adoption I think there's also the components of actual participation in the system right so if you do a survey right.
Now in most developed nations do you know what you know Bitcoin is you know cryptocurrencies are whatever you know a huge percentage of people say yes if you ask people have you ever owned any cryptocurrencies a non-trivial percentage people will say yes usually like in.
The single digits you know five six percent something like that and so you could say we've already achieved a certain amount of mass adoption of knowledge of the subject right obviously people don't have a deep understanding but they have a understanding of this concept and kind of what it is.
And it's the fact that it exists right I think to a certain extent if you want to further this then what we have to solve this currently participation asymmetry is what I'd like to think of it as which is right now if you look I cryptocurrencies there's there's two kinds.
Of people right there's the people you know developing.
The protocol which are highly involved in the project and all these technical decisions and then.
There's everybody else where the investors they put money into it and then that's all that's the extent of their participation in the system right and they just hope something happens all right and so how.
Do we drive mass adoption not just and you know.
The five or six percent that that by the coin but the five to six percent that could join the project Inc and.
Get involved and I think what that really boils down to is how do we get people to participate in stuff like governance.
And stuff like blog creation and staking and this kind of stuff and I think that's one of the reasons why I think you know projects like Cardinal can really help drive can you participate because you know if you get involved the Cardinal.
Ecosystem as the project develops.
Then you'll be able to you know builds your DAP on the protocol you'll be able to you know the players Marc contract you'll be able to contribute.
To the core protocol if you want but you can also just you know participate in the staking pools and try and decide which they can pool should you should join and which one is.
Using the money a gains in the most moral way possible and you know maybe if you weren't staking pulley and you know trying donate your proceeds to charity and get involved bring something like that.
Or you can get involved in the governance project and decide which projects get funded and this kind of stuff and I think this is a different kind of mass adoption because even if the percentage of people that use you know ADA to transact.
Does not increase the involvement in me Perl call if we had five or sixty percent of population involved and not just buying ADA but involved in the government process of Ada and you know deciding of the future of our.
Protocol looks like I mean that's that's huge to me and that's mass adoption to me so what you're saying if I'm if I'm looking on the financer bit tracks and I see this huge spike a big.
Giant green candle and all this massive volume that doesn't mean mass adoption does it not really huh the markets are.
Always gamed I mean this has been a no in fact in cryptocurrencies since the beginning right you look at the markets and it's like you know there's some people with a lot of these.
Tokens up there and a lot of time on their.
Hand to play around with with that money and you know they control happens and I don't think the price going up or down necessarily revolves mass adoption often were often it represents that you know somebody with a.
Lot of money or a lot of tokens is making some big play to try and increase their their stack yeah in Philly what do you think what is the magic benchmark.
That we might see that might say yay mass adoption has occurred is a big green candle on bit tracts or is there some other way of identifying what does mass adoption mean that's a good question I've never really thought about that pivotal or that inflection point where we can say when does mass.
Adoption occur I mean I would have to echo both what you and Sebastian said about how especially what.
Sebastian was saying about utility and people that are actually spending and involved in the governance within these crypto systems if we can bump that percentage up then I think we can consider ourselves.
Mass adopted or go towards that mass adoption but like.
This whole idea of like I don't even think that it's going to be at an e-commerce level you know like right now you can of course go and buy some socks with Bitcoin or ADA or whatever you want to buy with Bitcoin there's probably a website out there.
Too to purchase it but you know I don't think that ecommerce is definitely is is going to be the metric for mass adoption I think it's going to be just maybe like a whole shift in in thought or a whole shift in collective thought of everyone that lives within like the traditional Fiat Society and how.
They view crypto because and.
You know we were just mentioning price and people still value their crypto in u.s. dollars or euros or yen whatever local currency that they have so we obviously haven't moved to that point where it's it's the switch has been made it's not like how many ADA do you have it's like you know how many ADA do you have and.
What is that USD valuation or how much Bitcoin do you have and what's the price of Bitcoin right now let me put it in my calculator most people are still dead set on cashing out of the system so I wouldn't consider that mass adoption whatsoever because you know what I see in Cardno is I want to live within.
The system I want to hold my Aida and when that when that thought process changes I want to value my worth in Aida not so much like when am I gonna cash.
Out to buy this or buy that or put it back in my bank account if that makes any sense yeah that makes absolute sense because you.
Know if I go to Taco Bell and I buy a tie what would.
It cost me today I'm gonna buy one taco for I don't know dollar 50 so that's what 28 is so if I buy for 28 it this week and in February 28 is worth $2 I'm gonna say Wow why did I do that that didn't make sense so I think you're right Phillipe I don't know mass adoption.
Might not be characterized by ecommerce that might not you know in how many websites will accept ADA for their product or how many websites will accept Bitcoin for their product I did recently hear that Starbucks is going.
To do you know.
An experimental program again I think they've done some kind of experiment before with Bitcoin but instead of taking Bitcoin this is what I've heard instead of taking Bitcoin at face value the quantity would be you take the amount of Bitcoin that currently translate to the US dollar and then as it scales up or down you.
Would take the quantity of Bitcoin based on that new value like a daily average or something like that because you know we've all heard the story of.
The guy I call it like the original Bitcoin guy he bought two.
Pizzas for what was it was it like 10,000 Bitcoin or something like that yeah it was 10,000 I think yes okay so this guy buys two pizzas for 10,000 Bitcoin and I'm I'm grateful for.
That guy I'm glad he did that that is the person who started the ball rolling on mass adoption right there as far as I'm concerned because if he didn't buy those two pizzas for 10 in Bitcoin my one little kiss a she's going here would I I wouldn't even be able to.
Buy a slice of pepperoni with it so his sacrifice led to all of our benefit that's what that's how I look at I say that guy.
Made the sacrifice so that we could all play along Satoshi did some great work in math but that guy that.
Got hungry one night and bought two pieces with ten thousand Bitcoin you're the real MVP I heard he's doing pretty well I think he had quite a lot of bitcoins so I read a follow-up article that he's living pretty large so I don't think he took that much of it.
But that is still a pretty.
Big hit that is at the time it wasn't like I don't know Bitcoin was like less than a penny or something like that in value I mean it all starts from nothing the only weight gains value is that people trade it and they.
Trade it and they spend it may trade it and they spend it and then.
It starts gaining value and gaining momentum right now everybody's a hole well you got you kind of got two categories.
Of people that I've come across on the telegram forms because that's where I've seen most people and what most people are doing is either they're a day trader where they're swapping between currencies to try to get a little more out of it or they're just stockpiling and putting it away but they're not exchanging it for either physical.
Objects or something like that and some day you know I hope to see software developers out there if you if you need ideas.
Just let me know and I'll just keep throwing them out there you probably already have them all anyway but you know like coupons you know I go to the store lasts just a week in half ago and my wife pulls.
Out her purse.
And you know women's purses are these magical things that have enormous amounts of objects in them and she goes I forgot my coupons and I thought wow you know if coupons are on a blockchain and I you had it stored inside your phone and you can just go click click click click being okay there's my coupons you'll be like.
Wow that'd be great so you know these ICO tokens they're all trying.
To be not all of them but you're the people they're trying to make a lot of what they call stable currency I think it'd be great if you could put coupons on there that's what I consider part of mass adoption I think would be fantastic if you could like put movie tickets on a blockchain and if I wanted right.
Now I'm sitting here in on one side of the United States and Philippe is.
In another part of United States and Sebastian is in Japan and if I wanted to give him a movie ticket I can go click click click being and I just gave him.
A movie ticket for Christmas or something like that.
So that's the kind of things that when we can do that and by the taco then I think we're getting closer to what we call mass adoption at least on the e-commerce side of the house and one thing I like to say is that I think for.
People in you know first.
Of all countries I think the concept of mass adoption is kind of a marketing ploy so I mean if you think about why is there such highbrow cryptocurrencies and part of it is because it's the new technology but harvest does you know there's some people with large bags I mean they're trying to increase the.
Price of their coins by any finding these in Syria and so there's this concept of mass adoption at some point they're.
Gonna switch and instantly we're gonna go into crypto Wonderland or whatever and it kind of misleads people I think in a lot of cases when people look at.
A new project or.
A new piece of research they're trying to understand how is this revolutionary how has it changed the entire world but in reality.
For people in the first world nation where.
We're all right Bank.
Really have a bunch of fairly good services a lot of stuff cryptography can provide is incremental changes and incremental improvements they're not it'd be such a big.
Deal individually the overtime pile up and so this is like something I've ever had I realized there's a huge problem when trying to explain a part of you somebody issues in general you explain crypto there you're.
Explaining like you know this way of using Watkyn.
Or whatever and they're like well I don't understand where's where's the revolution like how how this is gonna change everything like it feels like there's still a bunch promises again it's not a revolution there's like this one tiny problem this all is maybe improves a little bit and there's some trade-offs.
To it you know you have to pay for a more in this other way and I see you know you can argue maybe in four movements and he'll have a harder time understanding these nuance discussions and so obviously if you're in the you know a third world country and you're going from unbanked to bank there are not banked.
But to like being able to use cryptocurrencies to you know manage your finances obviously that's a big change but.
In the first world countries this is a more nuanced potential improvement right this is this is why we see it's like an alternative system you know the system may not be perfect now.
But for most people in the first world countries you know and I never seven people it's working good enough right and so I.
Currency may provide an alternative system with maybe some incremental improvements in certain areas but it's not like revolutionary in my opinion yeah you know you bring up a good point because people have a different perspective from a third world country and what they see is something.
Is adopted and in the first world countries.
Adopted where you know to me it's.
Like kind of a de taco but in a third world it's like can I store my value in some way that it won't be stolen from me that definitely use banks for.
It's an armored warehouse for your life savings and in another perspective about the third world countries is recently in Venezuela you know Venezuela had that super inflationary problem where Philippe.
Was saying that a tiny bit inflation United States equals a massive amount inflation in another country and in Venezuela the inflation we got so far to control their money to became more valuable to burn it to.
Cook your food than it did to use it to buy something with and so people were sending nano again I don't mean to keep reaching back to nano but this channel will reach out to other communities and I've got to give props to nano at least from what I've read on the reddit sand on the.
News reports is that people are sending it.
To Venezuela and.
I can remember the exact numbers I don't want to quote myself on it but they would send a certain amount of Nano there and it had a lot of value to to where they could.
Buy things like bottled water and supplies that they needed because there money was in such turmoil so that their community was donating they're like okay if I buy a little bit of nano here and that's a really cool.
Thing about cryptocurrencies is you can purchase it online and then load.
It on your electronic device of some sort and then send it infinite distance and it gets to the other end.
Reliably now they can use it and so I thought that was really cool and so I think that was just one more stepping stone as long as we see success stories like that coming and they continue to occur then we're gonna be in a lot better shape crypto will find that.
Niche that that problem it can solve you know as Sebastian said is the crypto currency it needs to solve a problem kind of.
I don't want to quote you Sebastian but it's the you solve a little problem here it fits and it works and then you keep moving forward little small.
Layers at a time baby steps so in my opinion in general is mass adoption will occur it'll be gradual someday it'll be here.
And we'll never even notice that it happened and I think crypto currencies will kind of exist side by side with Fiat and there will be a relatively transparent relationship and mass adoption will occur when we stop asking the question with mass adoption occurs we won't even realize that it occurred so that's let's all.
Have on that subject guys what do you think I think that this was good I agree with both your your your comments your closing statements and I think that we we hit our first four questions.
For our podcast today and I think that we did a good job we can carry over this topic to our next podcast and we're gonna always be keeping the.
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